US Politics

But the papers didn't like it and we went back to the current system where rich people can ignore them :(

Not for speeding and other traffic offences. They were made income-linked a few years ago. Thankfully a few days after I got my last speeding ticket.

Trump isn't a physical danger.

Strongly disagree. He might not be injuring and killing people himself, but he's done stuff which causes people to be injured and killed. No difference in my book.

I do need spinach artichoke dip. I was not aware of its existence till now.

Agreed. I'm definitely not one for incarcerating people willy nilly but surely having someone locked up has the clear advantage of being able to keep an eye on them? One of the freedoms you lose is the ability to go about your nefarious business, whether that's directly inflicting harm on someone or getting someone else to do it, or being free to exploit new channels for communicating with the deluded flock.

Fuck it, lock 'im up!

Brommers in reply to @jellybaby

Trump isn't a physical danger.

Strongly disagree. He might not be injuring and killing people himself, but he's done stuff which causes people to be injured and killed. No difference in my book.

How many people lost their lives as a direct result of his ridiculous Covid approach?

I don't even go along that utilitarian line. I think he should be impeached, and then prosecuted, and if found guilty imprisoned because what he did was very, very wrong. Both on a moral and a legal basis. I'm amazed by people who have criticized him constantly, with justification, but who are now saying 'why bother impeaching or prosecuting him, let bygones be bygones, national unity, blah blah blah' and all that bollocks. You impeach, you prosecute, and if appropriate you imprison because what he did was wrong. And you don't hold back from doing that just because it might be politically expedient not to do so.

He should be impeached, prosecuted and if found guilty imprisoned because he deserves it. In my view, that's the end of the matter. Not that he will be, of course.

Thumbscrews?

Nope just grab random women and children by the genitals.

I'm not sure anyone is about to charge him with those offences. If they do that would be worth jail time IMHO.

Still capped at at apparently £2,500. Someone in Switzerland has apparently been fined more than $1,000,000 for speeding.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4173913.stm has a little detail about a previous system. Some people could get fines 50 times larger than others for the same offence.

One of the freedoms you lose is the ability to go about your nefarious business

Put a tag on him and give him a curfew then.

Still capped at at apparently £2,500.

Still quite a chunky increase from the £60 flat fine beforehand.

Someone in Switzerland has apparently been fined more than $1,000,000 for speeding.

Happily the only car I'll be driving in Switzerland, once the plague has passed, is Cycliste's new car. Which is a Skoda Fabia Estate with a throbbing 95bhp 3-cylinder engine. Boredom may beckon, but probably not bankruptcy.

Put him in fucking jail, he doesn't deserve to be treated better than the people in the country he was in charge of that get treated awfully. If the American justice system gets fixed for everyone before he gets convicted then maybe you've got a point.

Sure, he shouldn't get special treatment. Perhaps the folk of the US will wake up on Wednesday morning and start to sort out their justice system. I expect any Trump trial process may take a while :(

I wonder what the typical inmate thinks of Trump? Would a prison sentence need to be in solitary for his own safety? Much easier to manage the whole situation on Midway Atoll. There is a load of plastic debris that needs cleaning up.

"Having an equally divided Senate means that we have to work together to get anything done and the spirit of true bipartisan compromise is possible only when each side realizes they must come to the table together."

So said the spirit of bipartisan compromise, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell. Errrrr...

Suck it up Mitch. Ya lost.

You're welcome

Nope just grab random women and children by the genitals.

I'm not sure anyone is about to charge him with those offences. If they do that would be worth jail time IMHO.

I wasn’t talking about the times he’s done it in the past, I’m talking about the times he’ll do it in the future if given half a chance. You mentioned it’s unlikely he’ll punch someone so jail isn’t suitable, I’m saying there’s a strong likelihood he’ll continue being a sexual predator so jail is suitable, if outright treason isn’t enough.

In any case, the man has damaged the US more than any single individual since the Civil War, possibly ever. He did so for his own enrichment, the enrichment of his cronies, and to satisfy his sadistic desires for adoration and subservience, while holding an office where he swore to do the opposite. If him being sentenced to prison time isn’t a textbook example of holding someone accountable for their actions, then we’ve lost the plot.

Limo outside his lawyers office

https://www.rawstory.com/amp/stretch-limo-awaits-joe-exotic-pardon-2650030632?__twitter_impression=true

I wasn’t talking about the times he’s done it in the past, I’m talking about the times he’ll do it in the future if given half a chance.

Maybe but we typically jail people after conviction or at least after being charged.

Maybe but we typically jail people after conviction or at least after being charged.

I may have misunderstood, I thought that was a given? Charge him, judge him, sentence him strictly by the book if found guilty. No home arrest, no plea deal, no pardon or commuted sentence.

And you we're just talking about only putting people in jail if they're likely to be a physical danger, he's admitted on tape to sexually assaulting people, and has bragged about wanting to punch people in speaches. I'm not sure what your point is really, why do you not want him to go jail so much?

Trump must be prosecuted as a deterrent to future presidents who attempt to become dictator. He attempted to overthrow a free election and take power for himself.
He is guilty of crimes under the Emoluments statute. He directed hundreds of millions of dollars to his own business by having meetings at his properties.

America is very very lucky Trump was stupid and ignorant. If it had been someone far more intelligent and well versed in law America might have collapsed.

The full measure of Trump's criminality may not be known for months or years. He routinely shredded everything he could, and did not like people taking notes during meetings. Widely held opinion about his golf obsession is it was just a way of doing business in private without scrutiny or eavesdroppers.

I don't want most people to go to jail, we lock up far too many people. It's expensive and it doesn't rehabilitate. Jail serves two purposes, public protection and punishment. I think the risk Trump poses, for incitement of insurrection, isn't really addressed by putting him in prison, although cutting him off from communication is. I think there are other ways of punishing someone.

The allegations of sexual offences are a different issue. Although we don't lock up and throw away the key in many sexual offence cases. Rolf Harris is apparently out on licence for example and living in Bray in what appears to be a lovely home. I'd rather he was in a bedsit in Luton having sold his home (although that is perhaps unfair on his wife).

he's done stuff which causes people to be injured and killed. No difference in my book.

At a Rally in 2016 he urged the crowd to beat up protesters outside. He even said he would pay legal bills for anyone charged for assault.

How much more clearly can you say it?

I think there are other ways of punishing someone.

What suitable punishment is there that is less onerous, equally secure and proportional besides prison?

I don't want most people to go to jail, but you seem to be mixing up a decent idealistical view on the justice system with what should happen to a man who has likely committed a load of very serious crimes and should be tried and jailed as per the current system he's presided over, rather than avoid jail time as many of his peers would in such situation due to the privilege of being an old, rich, white guy that generally doesn't have to worry about the law.