Car appreciation... the aesthetics, the engineering, etc

Yes I think it manageable, though payload is compromised so it can’t replace all diesel vans.
The idea would be to replace a percentage and manage them according to weight and distance.

These are the kinds of EV the world really needs, not stupid high end things that can't drive themselves but say they can, and require the luxury of a private drive or garage to charge at home

FTFY

@hoops

Such saltiness :-D

That sprinter is the same price as a Model 3 LR (360 mile WTP range) and still needs a type 2 charger. In terms of charing speed, it's also slower than the Model 3 - 80kw max vs. 250kw max.

It's definitely the type of vehicle we should be electrifying but it's not a very good implementation...

Reclassification of payloads for EV vans might be a good way to improve range as I'd imagine manufacturers are finding it very difficult to strike a balance between having a shitload of batteries and still having some load capacity remaining...

Yeah, the form factor seems ideal for massive batteries under the floor but I guess they can’t build them like that unless it’s for a cotton wool supplier or something :,)

exactly - if vehicle manufacturers really want to be "investing in the future" they should be putting the same amount of effort into developing EV's for the industrial market as they do on the middle aged white male executive market. Vans like this are clearly miles behind a Tesla in terms of development, but should be way ahead IMO.

Vans get used all day long, 7 days a week. Your average Tesla that replaced a range rover probably has sub 8 hours use a week? Imagine the drop in C02 output getting rid of all diesel engined vans would create. Even just focusing on using EV for urban delivery vans to suit the smaller range and using ICE for long range logistics would have a huge impact on C02 emissions.

Setting up large scale charging for a fleet of vans at a depot is far less complicated than getting sufficient EV charging points in residential areas to make EV ownership realistic for the masses.

Dont get me wrong, I would love an EV, but I dont want an electic sports car, or an electric luxury saloon with a giant tv on the dashboard, or an electric tiny 2 seater urban run around.

I doubt an EV that would suit my list of wants/needs will exist for an extremely long time TBH.

Your average Tesla that replaced a range rover probably has sub 8 hours use a week?

Ouch. Also, way less than 8 hours a week.

I think hydrogen might be a better commercial vehicle solution long term. Whilst BEVs are much more efficient than ICE, storage of energy (with current tech) is too heavy. Average van diesel fuel tank probably contains 700kwh+ of energy. Biggest battery pack Tesla makes in their cars is 100kwh.

Even when accounting for the better efficiency, it’s not enough for a full day as a courier etc.

Indeed - which is my exact point of why more focus should be put into developing greener industrial vehicles than is currently, as they are by far the biggest polluters.

I think we're saying the same thing. Totally agree. The day we don't have massive diesel commercial vehicles hooning about the place will be great.

Unfortunately I don't own a courier company so all I can do is make the cars we use electric - which both are.

Now if someone would make a good electric motorbike....

same as clap 4 carers, makes you feel good

It's not really though, is it?

Clapping does literally nothing. Swapping ICE vehicles for BEVs literally stops you putting more CO2 and NOx from your driving into the atmosphere.

First line and this place seems to disagree.

Someone elses stuff, mind your own business?

kind of ..

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S135223101630187X

1 Attachment

A 4 year old report that was supported by a company that manufactures free piston diesel engines and has had its affiliation with the University where the research was done stripped.

How about this.

Updated in June last year, compares 150k Km usage, including manufacturing, shipping, energy consumption in major US and EU markets...

I don't understand the argument that seems to be so prevalent; the because it doesn't 100% solve the emissions issue, it should be discarded as an option.

If anyone needs a new vehicle, there is no argument; it's cleaner to have an electric one.

Even vs. buying a used car (say a Discovery 3), the brand new BEV will deliver emissions savings (for identical mileage) in just 2-4 years.

Agreed provided the person in question can afford one...

There are a lot of people out there who are still a long way away from being able to afford a BEV that will suit their requirements.

Improvements in public transport and car sharing could help to improve that situation drastically but it's still a way off.

Think Dieter Rams summed this up quite nicely;

"[When an audience member at the panel asked him about Tesla] he said,“We don’t need anything faster.” (Rams drives a Porsche.) “We need to rethink the entire transportation system.” Not cars, but traffic.

I get your point and agree, but maybe a Discovery 3 isn't the best comparison? :)

I did a fair bit of reading up about this a few years ago. Back then it seemed pretty clear that keeping an old car on the road will always be cleaner than getting a new BEV. Has that changed in the last few years?

I completely agree that its lesser of two evils

Has anyone here owned or had a good drive in an early (2006+) Lexus LS460?

I'm interested in hearing what was thought of the engine and gearbox...

Lexus will always have the stigma of an alan partridge car for me.

It's what @hoops drives so a little nod ;)

The report I linked to showed that buying a Nissan Leaf will outperform an ICE in terms of life of vehicle emissions, within two years. 4 years if you're not buying a new car (ie keeping the one you have or buying a used ICE). That's using the current EU average emissions for new ICE vehicles which is much higher than used

Lexus's seem to be low value, quiet reliable posh toyotas. Lots of electrical gubbins that work. Watch that the engines have been serviced and timing belt/chain issues. Had a few cheap high mileage lexus that were just above scrap prices. Ran for while got bored and sold on.

I was part of the media team that launched the LS460, in EMEA, back in 2006. Drove it a lot back then as we had a loaner car for a couple of months.

Engine wise, I thought the 460 was fine - a bit slow because of the heft but the AWD meant it kept power down very well (never drove the RWD). The 8 speed auto was a bit ponderous on step down but shifts were super smooth. Fuel consumption was laughable.

The LS600h engine was much better off the line but the CVT was terrible.

All round though, they're heavy. Certainly not 'dynamic' to drive.

Agree with @Pifko though - no amount of Halfords parts bins are going to get away from the image of Alan Partridge and string back driving gloves.