Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

They might pull it off yet:
https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1350181996258095104

So sorry to read this. Thoughts go to all of you.

I was speaking to my brother at the weekend. He's a GP in a London practice. He's not so optimistic. Like being told to throw away 200 doses of vaccine because the syringes they had available didn't have the right branding on them. Same size, same materials. Different name. Chuck 'em out, you can't use them. And that was only the start.

'It's airborne - the trad distinction between 'aerosols' ≤5 μm and 'droplets' >5 μm is not helpful in understanding the dynamics of transmission - masks work - air exchange works.' (where 'works' = 'notably affect transmission dynamics')

Are all London frontline getting the second dose?

Basically totally up to trusts - we got our second doses in early Jan but some people within our trust who were due a bit later are having them delayed to 12 weeks. Other trusts have started off with a 12 week gap right off the bat.

Other people in the ONS survey: how long is it taking you to get test results? I had a swab and blood test on Monday. Sounds like (understandably) they are prioritising tests from people who have symptoms

Ah thanks

Varies, between 1 week and about 3 weeks

Like being told to throw away 200 doses of vaccine because the syringes they had available didn't have the right branding on them. Same size, same materials. Different name. Chuck 'em out, you can't use them.

Not to be dismissive or snarky, so apologies if it comes off that way, but I can't help but feel someone's got the wrong end of the stick with this anecdote. And if not, were I told to destroy two hundred doses of a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic due to a branding issue, I'd be on the phone with a superior/the press. That pharmacist in the States was arrested for spoiling 500 doses. People are taking this pretty seriously.

A week for me usually except the time it was “positive” which was 36hrs.

I guess approved delivery of a vaccine will have approved needles, syringes etc?

Not using correct needles might open up to legal issues?

Although wasteful, there is something to be said in time critical situations where it might be appropriate to just Chuck something and carry on. Fridge capacity, expiry dates and so on.

I’m more worried about the reported 28% uptake of vaccine from black and ethnic groups.

Yeh I read a piece on that yesterday, apparently it is really prevalent in South Asian communities as well, so they are try to work with community leaders, faith leaders, cultural icons in those communities to dispel a lot of the doubts, apparently there is all sort of misinformation circulating, like the vaccine containing meat or pork etc.

I understand that there is quite of a lot of scepticism and distrust in France regarding vaccines.

Also that actually getting one is quite paperwork heavy, though this might have been streamlined recently.

Not to be dismissive or snarky, so apologies if it comes off that way, but I can't help but feel someone's got the wrong end of the stick with this anecdote.

I don't think so. It was a pretty detailed and lengthy discussion of the point. The practice has been receiving the Pfizer vaccine in batches of 200 glass vials, each intended to contain 5 doses, so 1000 doses per batch. Once the glass vials are warmed up, they have to be reconstituted in order to make up the vaccine. The doctors carrying out the reconstitution process found that in fact they were getting enough for 6 doses rather than 5 from each vial, potentially meaning that they could vaccinate 1200 people with each batch rather than 1000. However, each batch is only supplied with 1000 syringes and needles. They asked whether they could use the practice's existing supply of needles and syringes in order to administer the 'extra' 200 doses, the needles and syringes essentially being interchangeable with the ones supplied with the kit, but were told that they could not, and they could only use additional syringes and needles if they were of the same brand as those supplied with the batches of vaccines, which they didn't have. When they informed the assurance person whose sign-off they need in order to use the vaccine that they only had needles and syringes from a different brand, they were told that in that case they couldn't use the extra 200 doses and should dispose of them.

Not sure there's really much scope for misunderstanding there.

Losing 200 doses that they weren't intended to have in the first place doesn't seem quite as big a deal.

All packaging and branding for pharma products is very heavily regulated and quality control has to be very high and everything traceable. I imagine using non branded syringes for this could be a regulatory issue that’s just not worth opening up unfortunately.

I worked on the packaging for a very low volume drug and it was a complete nightmare due to all of this

Yes - I am hopeful that they will exceed target

One of my Nan's just got hers this morning, a constant stream of oldies coming through. The people organising and giving the vaccine are doing an incredible job.

Out here in the LB Hillingdon, the closest vaccination super centres, organised by Central NHS, in Epsom, Stevenage and the Excel Centre may as well be on the Moon for isolating at risk residents.

'However, there will soon be three additional vaccination centres in LB Hillingdon:
1) The Winston Churchill hall,
2) The Compass Centre at Heathrow, (the former British Airways Head Office not the Ickenham theatre)
3) a venue in Hayes

Based upon a regular supply of vaccine these three centres should be able to vaccinate 10,000 people per day summoned by NHS appointments.'

Above reported by the new Leader of the LB Hillingdon Council, Ian Edwards, at the full Council meeting on Thursday evening.

The extra sixth dose is something that I have read on another Twitter thread about vaccination rates in Scotland.

In that thread the author implies that doctors have been using the extra doses.

Perhaps without consent?

They might pull it off yet:

https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/statu­s/1350181996258095104

It was in here.

The doctors carrying out the reconstitution process found that in fact they were getting enough for 6 doses rather than 5 from each vial

Isn't this a bit like watering down the washing up liquid ?

Still waiting for the latest results from swabs taken ~midday last Saturday, so that's 7 days so far.

The nurse did say that there was a backlog of testing due to Christmas, the most recent test was 6 weeks from the last one, so I guess there's a backlog processing them and, as you say and quite rightly, they are probably processing other tests as a priority over the ONS tests (which are just for a population wide study).

The nurse also said that we'd probably get another visit in 2 weeks (so trying to keep to the overall 4 week schedule rather than automatically being 4 weeks from the last one).

[EDIT] Results (negative) arrived in the post this morning. Letter dated 12th Jan (test was on 9th Jan). None of us received a text with the results which I thought we'd asked for. (Not fussed, it's a population wide study not an individual testing programme after all.)

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere - my grandma just had her first dose of the astra zeneca vaccine - when can I go round for a cup of tea?

My understanding is you build up immunity around 2 weeks after the second dose. However, 1 in 20 don't. Is it worth it? (IANAD)