Bread

Cheers

I find my fuckup loaves are where I learn most. I was under the misapprehension that I wasn’t proving for long enough but actually was over proving and allowing too much water in too soon. Not proving at ambient temperature because the freshly milled flour is so much more active I am still finding the proving time is much shorter than recipes using ready milled flour suggest. Adding water slowly “basinage” while kneading seems to allow the dough to drink the water up. As a result a much stronger outer layer forms, this makes for a much thicker crust and when the bread cooks it can’t just flop down and has to expand at the weakest point (where it has been scored).

The sourdough school book is a great resource and currently the one that has influenced my baking the most. At some point I am sure I’ll start reading Dan Leppard before going back to Bartinet. It feels there are bits of technique I couldn’t manage a year ago that now make sense and have been incorporated into my method.

Just looking at the point you make about adding the water gradually. If for examples the recipe said add 500ml and you felt like the dough was too wet would you stop adding?

Not sure if you were after advice, so feel free to ignore of you weren't... Compare your pics to the couple of loaves below. The slashes on yours look fully baked whereas you can see on the others where the loaf has continued to rise and expand as it has cooked. Your loaf may be cooking too fast on the outside, meaning the crust is sealed too early and the pressure can't force the slits open further. Hence bulging sideways.

If you have a fan oven this can cause the crust to dry too quickly, also the heating element at the top of the oven being on can do this. If you can, cook on bottom element only with no fan. A Dutch oven (lid on) will also stop this from happening.

What I am finding is that by adding 450ml all at once I never really get the dough to behave. So I start with 150ml and then keep adding 25-50ml. I do this up to about 350 -400 ml. And then leave to autolyse. Next I’ll add salt and more water (about 30-50ml). Then continue kneading and adding more water gradually. I might then leave for 30-60 mins before a bit more adding of water and kneading. Crucially I am now finding recipes that just produced a wet dough (and I couldn’t add all the water) are now able to take up all the water and often a significant amount more.

There are some nice advantages to working with a dry feeling dough - a lot less sticks to me or the bench. I tend to spread the dough out, simple it with my knuckles and spread a little water over the surface. I then fold it back over itself like an envelope before kneading the water in.

That's really interesting. Will try adding water more gradually with my next bake.

At what point do you add the starter?

This is all very interesting indeed. I’m looking at an enamel roasting post to keep the crust soft.

I will also be adding the water slowly. The thing is once it’s wet how do the dough keep it’s structure.

I’m reducing the water and you are adding more!

I think James' point is that if you add the final bits of the water in stages (bassinage?), you get a higher-hydration dough that handles like it has lower hydration, so the best of both worlds.

Yep, that is my experience

It is a little more time consuming but the results are better rise, better crust and improved crumb.

I tend to mix starter, flour and then water and leave for about 45-60 mins. Then add salt (often as a salt solution) and then keep adding more water but gradually.

If I add too much water the dough becomes slippery and slimy. I will let that liquid puddle on the counter and knead the rest of the dough until it starts to feel less slippery, I’ll then roll the dough in the slop on the counter and knead that in. I am finding it easier to work a slightly dry dough and then add water than trying to recover an overly wet dough.

Take anything I say with a pinch of salt. It seems there are an infinite number of ways to make bread, flour, water, salt and bacteria can be worked together in many ways.

My guess is each baker finds ways to work around the problems they create for themselves by fucking things up. I just find it interesting that sometimes I find my assumptions are wrong about what I have done wrong and the resolutions seem a little counter intuitive.

My proving basket has gone mouldy 😔

I’ve gone for a gradual adding of water today and it seems marginally less wet which is a good start.

It’s autolysing now so will then add the solution and it will become wetter again.

2nd olive loaf, more flour in the banneton (a mistake on my part) has given me some nice markings.
Good year. Might start trying two or three slashes to see how that works.

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That’s really nice. Great work

So I’ve got my wet dough. It doesn’t hold its shape because it’s quite wet. But does have bubbles in which is a good sign.

This is the point where I’m stuck. Do I start adding flour with each fold to dry it a bit.

If I leave this over night in a basket it will just flop out like a pancake tomorrow

In my experience it starts to feel drier as you fold it that combined with it stiffening up in the fridge might mean it'll be fine. Or not and then you need to clean your oven, so it's a bit of a gamble. What's the hydration?

No idea I never venture into t that much. 500ml of water to 700grams of flour. Then 30 ml of salt solution

I'd use that much to make 2 loaves, which may hold their shape better .

With 100g of starter you'd be around 77% hydration, on the high side but shouldn't be impossible.

https://breadcalc.com/

I'm around 75% lately and should really be going lower.

It’s too floppyabouty to hold its structure really so will aim for less water next time. But still do the gradual addition

sourdough cinnamon rolls made today

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Put my loaf into this morning. It’s just flopped into a pancake.

Looks more like biscotti than bread

It did rise slightly.

I did have this on the lowest part of the oven at 200 rather than 250.

I also spray it with water and had a pot with water in too.

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What's going on here? Are nann meant to be rolled out? I absolutely nailed it once before but can't remember what I did differently. These have puffed up like giant pitas rather than bubbling all over. (These are par baked by the way so I can freeze and re-heat them, demolished the first one)

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