Motorcycle and Scooter appreciation

Have you considered not buying a small bike?
There’s no right way to do things, Pdlouche will attest that it was valuable experience riding around on the 125 for practice for a few months.
The thing I thought about was the losing money on reselling the bike and also the cost of tax, MOT, insurance that you don’t get back and could instead be used to get on the big bikes quicker. I went for my CBT, hired a 125 for a week and rode it for a lot of hours during that week, then booked straight on my theory and a Direct Access Course. I had three days training including both parts of the practical test and a month later had a 600. The training and tests came to about £800 I seem to recall so anything saved can really help speed things up in that regard

Anyone got experience with Honda VFR engined bikes?

Considering a Crosstourer, which runs a VFR1200.
Seems like a decent upgrade from my XL700, powerwise.

Do a CBT // ride a small bike for a while (weeks/months/years) // do a big bike course/test // get a bigger bike
Do a CBT // ride a small bike for a while // drive a car instead
Do a CBT // do the theory test immediately // do a DAS course (if old enough) // buy a bigger bike

And all variations in between.

CBT/DAS, I thought I’d do it all in the space of a few weeks, and I was wrong.

It took about a month waiting list to book my CBT in November, month wait to do theory test, month or more wait to start DAS (in January/February). Had I immediately booked everything in advance in August, maybe this could have been compressed to a matter of weeks not months. I waited til Sept/Oct thinking things would die down, but everything stayed booked til January.

Barely a week after my CBT I bought the GN125, I didn’t want to wait and risk losing time to practice. Knowing it was two months til I’d be training on a 600, that was two months of independent learning I could get.

Good job too.

Theory, almost full marks. Getting on big bikes in the cold and stormy rain, hell. Module 1, clean no minors. And then, a week later, one single major fault on the Module 2 and I fail.

Re-test one month later. Suddenly two days before my re-test we are in lockdown, and being a key worker did jack shit for getting a test booked.

This is all very CSB/TLDR, but there are a couple points that @nefarious needs to keep in mind.

I should have booked everything in advance if I wanted the license quickly. I am glad I didn’t.

I shouldn’t have bought a 125cc if I thought I’d be jumping straight on a bigger bike after DAS. I’m glad I did.

I hadn’t really decided what kind of motorbike I would ride with a full license, and my intended use turned out totally different.

Because I didn’t have everything booked in advance, I gained experience just riding. No way was I ready for a 600 last year, and no way was an intensive DAS going to provide me with the skillset to survive on the road.

The 125cc wasn’t in great shape but that meant I learned essential maintenance and troubleshooting very quickly, as well as what a bike should and shouldn’t feel like. I made all the mistakes on a forgiving little junker.

My intended use changed dramatically, for the better too. None of the suggestions (MT-07 Tracer, et al) tickled me, and temptation to try a bit of gravel threw me into the world of green lanes. My intended use was to commute to some work, to/from London, and some Euro touring to visit friends. Lockdown, none of that applied any more, and I foresaw that it wouldn’t for a long time. Dry summer, local green lanes, wide bars on a tiny bike and shitloads of fun.

From the idea of a (heavy) 500-600cc road bike, all the byways pushed me toward lightweight versatile dualsport. I love my DR350, and I wouldn’t have even considered it if I hadn’t failed my Mod2 and spent months on green lanes on the GN125.

The 125 taught me I needed something bigger, but not heavy, the 600 taught me I didn’t need anything bigger, but certainly lighter. I’d gladly own a 600 as well, but as a second bike.

With lockdown, I’m not sure what your best course of action will be, but just to warn you, my instructor sent me this photo on Tuesday. The earliest bookings for new tests are the first week of February. You may not have much of a choice if you want to ride before next summer.

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Consider how much restraint you know you have. Going from nothing to a 600 in a month if you know yourself to be a little heavy handed might see you in a bush/ditch or worse.
The learning curve is steep and even if you've driven cars for years, there's nothing like sitting on a 170kg machine with more power than the average hatchback that'll do 0-60 in under 4 seconds.
As everyone agrees, you will do most of your learning after your test.

I'm personally really happy I went the way I did. I found riding the 125 frustrating, gear changes where lurchy and the bike would be happy in basically any gear at 20mph which is not the case on larger bikes. It did not feel natural turning, I had the rear wheel slip a couple of times given the size of the tyre being little more than a MTB tyre and I scraped the foot peg on the ground once or twice.
At the same time it was a lot of fun being out on my own riding around town.

Swings and roundabouts

My first bike:
Suzuki GSR600. Very easy to ride, forgiving, a lot of fun. Cost me £1,700 with 7000 miles on the clock

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Yea you have to ride a 125 like a 125, and anything else like a motorbike.

I enjoyed my time on a 125, got me out of my cyclist mindset, taught me how to ride a motorbike, when I found my self needed more right wrist I had already done my theory and was doing a 3 lesson DAS.
Still got the old 125 gathering dust in the back of the garage, really should shift it on

I had a blast on 50/80/125/180cc on L plates. Little bikes are wicked fun. Weight sucks the joy out of two wheels for me. You can balance it with more power to some extent but nothing beats light.

Simplify, then add lightness

The fact I kept it for 15 years without riding it is a bit of a giveaway. :)

Still kinda wishing I’d bought it!

Just a bit. Lol
I miss my RGV!

I didn’t spend much time on a 125 (CBT plus a couple of hours tuition) before going to a 600 but didn’t think it added much other than the basic controls. Most of my road skills were already there from cycling and driving and the feel of a big bike is totally different to a 125.
I obviously learnt plenty on the 600 after passing my test but never felt it was too much.

Spent 2 years on a 125 at 17, but for those who are older/more mature I can understand the appeal of moving up the ladder quickly. Not convinced spending decades on slow bike makes a better rider but definitely some truth to helping understand defensive riding and anticipating everyone trying to kill you.

Thanks for taking the time to offer advise everyone - really appreciate it.

Basically I just wanted to get on any bike. I just need something to get out the house on. Buying a more fun car was the catalyst. I really enjoy going out driving in something that is actually fun to drive, buy I realised that I needed to not rag the shit out of my daily that I need to be working. And that working on a car/throwing money at it isn’t a good idea. No amount of cash is gonna make a 2ltr estate into a sports car after all.

The main reason I wanted a 125 was simply because it meant I could get on a bike sooner with my budget.

Cbt, 125, helmet, and trousers, with a jacket for free off a mate was something I could afford in the next few months. And hopefully not lose too much on the resale of a 125.

But if I wanted to get a big bike, I’d need to budget way more for the bike - 3k vs 1k. And I’d need a proper suit to wear, rather than just trying to get by with what I can beg and borrow. And hopefully through riding a 125 I’ll get a better idea of what bike I actually want. I’m old enough to go straight for my full license and I’ve been driving for over a decade so I don’t need to worry about that side of things.

In my mind, I want something 600cc, plenty torque, enough fairing that I can nip on the motorway, but mainly just something to enjoy on the B roads round here in Yorkshire. I don’t want it to be too heavy. I don’t want it to be going over 100mph to come alive. Thoughts of touring Europe and Scotland appeal, but it seems silly to buy a bike based on such a far fetched plan. I also appreciate that I need to actually ride more to know what I want. I actively want to avoid the situation where I buy something niche, only to discover I don’t actually enjoy that kind of riding.

I had a go on my brothers 250cc 4 stroke scrambler on some forestry track and really enjoyed it, and my bro seemed pretty confident in my handling capabilities.

Fuck knows though. My bro passed his test 2nd or 3rd time, despite being super capable on bikes and other stuff, which kinda shits me up about wasting cash going straight for my full license.

understand defensive riding and anticipating everyone trying to kill you.

I feel like I’m pretty switched on as a driver and cyclist in regards to this. I was lucky to have a couple crashes on my bike when I was younger that really switched me on without putting me to any harm. Obviously the stakes are WAY higher on a motorbike, but I feel like the sense is pretty tuned in already. But I’m also aware that there will be lots to learn.

That's a great point. To be fair most of us on this cycling(?) forum are probably a lot more aware of being vulnerable on 2 wheels than joe average.

Only thing I’d add to what you’ve said is that I’d spend the money now on quality gear. A 125 will still do 60mph or so and if someone pulls out on you, well you know the consequences and I wouldn’t want to be sliding down the tarmac in a £100 helmet and budget trousers.
Factor in some money for boots too. It’s rather inevitable that you’ll drop the bike at one time or another and even a lighter 125 could crush your ankle if you’re still sat on the bike when it fancies a nap

I agree with @PhilDAS - quality kit lasts a long time. Don’t skimp out or you may as well wear shorts and trainers.

ATGATT and proud. That doesn’t mean raceday leathers on a scooter. It means CE rated soft comfortable near-invisible armour on knees, elbows shoulders and back, inside comfortable warm/ventilated clothes that won’t shred too quickly on impact.

The Oxford Montreal trousers survived a lot of abuse this year, and I favour them over my more expensive RST’s. I did wear aramid-lined jeans with knee armour on the hottest days this year, but Oxfords with removable liners and vents suited most occasions.

Proper boots are a number one priority. You’ll kick your shins on the footpegs and wish you had proper boots long before you drop a bike and roll your ankle.

Even heavily discounted kit is okay if it provides the right stuff.

It’s cold until March, now, so you will need warm/waterproof gloves or riding will be miserable.

Sod £3k on a bike. Find something fully functional for a grand, and spend a few hundred on kit that will last.

spend the money now on quality gear

The plan was to buy a helmet that I wouldn’t need to replace, and the free jacket is a proper bike jacket my mate just doesn’t fit any more. I was hoping that some semi decent second hand trousers would see me through. Boots and gloves too (can’t say I was massively enthusiastic about second hand, but needs must).

I do appreciate that buying good kit is a necessity. Part of me was just doing mental maths trying to figure out how to get on a bike quickly, but I’m starting to realise that I’ll probably need to invest/save a bit more cash than initially thought.

Eg, I was trying to get on the road for about £1500, buying a 125 bike for £7-800 etc.

And it’s mid winter. Tax bill is due at the end of January. I’m functionally unemployed with my field of work being completely dead due to corona. But wangling my way to getting a bike for cheap seemed really appealing, albeit probably a bit stupid.

ATGATT and proud

Had to google that!

125cc’s are more expensive, because there is a greater market for them. One-day CBT and go. You could pay up to £2k for a ‘decent’ 125cc. The £7-800 may have a lot of issues that aren’t advertised, or essential maintenance that hasn’t been performed.

More likely grand for a middle of the road big bike, £1500 for a serviceable 125cc regardless of the season. The ‘winter is cheaper’ rule didn’t count last year nor this year.

Mine, I spent hundreds on new battery, tyres, chain, sprockets, bulbs, oil/air filters, etc etc etc. Add it to the tally. Cheaper the bike, less likely any of this has been done for you already.

Good gear on eBay can be had for peanuts really. Especially boots. If you really want to do this two wheeled thi by, start hunting for gear on eBay before bike. You can find some utter bargains.

High quality stuff comes along quite often. Recently got a set of tcx full goretex off road boots for £70. Lid is only thing I buy spanking new.

Bike wise, patience pays off, and have someone go with you to check it out. Uncomfortable in any way, walk away, there’ll be other bikes. If you’re out in the sticks, you’re likely to find better maintained stuff than in the city. Don’t be scared of aiming far outside of your location to find wheels. It’ll pay off.

A good history book pays for itself.
If you get there and the bike is warm, I’d be wary. Always start the bike from
Cold, especially in winter. That’ll raise a lot of issues on the spot if it has any. If any pop up, that’s your position to negotiate.

You probably dodged a bullet. Might be worth a punt on an import model just to see if you like the style (of course you will!!)

Don't, I always wanted to try one. They knocked the TZR off the top 250 perch after a very short time on top.

Something like the ER6 covers most of your wish list. If you're tall it might not be the most comfortable though.

Everyone's right about the gear. I still have more money invested in riding gear than I do in m/bikes.

Some clothing bargains on eBay are incredible. A lot of people buy decent gear when they are old and flush then don't do anywhere near as much riding as they used to and eventually sell it when they sell the bike.

If I were starting again I'd probably look at Knox under armour and a Tucano Urbano all in one waterproof. Trousers are a bit harder because the best textile trousers are still money but Rukka stuff sometimes comes up that's old but not worn much. If you have an all in one suit it doesn't matter if the textiles not still fully waterproof.