Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Yeah, it's frustrating. We have a two week half term for some reason. We've taken the kids off school today, and the plan is currently to isolate till next Tuesday, which is about 13 days, then head up to the grandparents in the Midlands for the rest of that week.

They are basically voluntary shielding due to heart conditions / general old age, so isolation before we see them has been standard through this whole period. We're the only people that have been in their house since March. Everyone else has stayed in the garden on the other side of a hose laid on the lawn...

Now it looks like our plans may be scuppered, but I'm trying to find out if the tier system is actually a legal thing - will it be illegal for us to visit them, or just against the guidance.

I know we're doing that thing we've agreed is wrong - if you're trying to see if you're allowed to do something, you probably shouldn't, but its frustrating because we know we will be taking all possible steps to make it safe - steps we were going to/and have taken even when it wasn't required.

They are lonely and desperate for some company / to have the grandkids around and my partner will be absolutely gutted if we can't go. With Christmas also massively up in the air, this could be a real blow for everyone's mental health right now.

Perhaps we can claim we are bubbling with them...a short term bubble, with our own two week circuit break policy....it's hardly a drive to Barnard Castle to check your eyes.

that guy with the gazebo and pizza oven feeling pretty smug rn

Are places closing? (Pubs, restaurants, etc)

I had plans to travel from my Tier 1 Essex abode to a neutral* London zone to meet a pal on Saturday (now when the T2 kicks in) which will probably be kyboshed now

*Neutral as in, somewhere for lunch, not her house

You won't be able to mix households indoors, even in pubs/restaurants. (That scuppers our plans for meeting friends for a curry on Saturday.)

You can (I think) still meet people from different households if you remain outside. (That means my post 5-a-side pints should be able to carry on as we all sit outside the pub.)

Thanks - that's helpful.

We've got a holiday cottage in Kent booked for part of half term and had been planning to take a niece and/or a nephew, but that'll be out if we (in London) do move to Tier 2

That's very close to what we'd be doing. Us (T2) renting a cottage in a T1 area, and staying there with parents from a T1 area. Sounds like that's a no-no.

It's probably academic, likely by the time we go in early November we'll all be on a much more unambiguous lockdown..

If you can justify that they are part of your support bubble then it is OK

Now it looks like our plans may be scuppered, but I'm trying to find out if the tier system is actually a legal thing - will it be illegal for us to visit them, or just against the guidance.

There is a law, well 3. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/coronavirus - The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) ([Medium|High|Very High]) (England) Regulations 2020

If you can justify that they are part of your support bubble then it is OK

A support bubble is supposed to involve two households, one of which has a single adult member so I think what @Scrabble describes isn't one. It's also supposed to be local.

Informal childcare is allowed so if @Scrabble and partner dump the kids with the grandparents while they go do something else for a few hours I think they are okay but the grandparents should keep their distance.

IANAL

Just had a look, technically don't think we can. The only legally permitted support bubbles are for single adult households.

Edit ^ Yep...

See Linked Childcare Household at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1105/made

Thanks, makes sense.
I seemed to be applying "indoors" to mean where someone lives, not "inside any building".

I think indoors has the same definition as the smoking regulations so some bus shelters count as indoors.

I stand corrected, I thought it included wider childcare and was well aware using it in this scenario was tenuous at best

Very interesting, thanks.

You can (I think) still meet people from different households if you remain outside. (That means my post 5-a-side pints should be able to carry on as we all sit outside the pub.)

I think beer gardens are classed as part of the pub. Just the street or a park or something is OK though I guess.

I hear a lot of nonsense said about "bubbles" here in SW London.

People seem to completely ignore the single adult household aspect of the bubbles. People seem to flit between bubbles at will, forgetting that they are meant to be reciprocal, exclusive and long term.

More often than not though it's because they're helping out people by doing their shopping and the like and, rather than leaving it on the doorstep and maybe having a cup of tea with them whilst remaining outside, they also feel the need to be in to their house and do things which may not be completely necessary.

We're in a similar situation in that we can't be in a support bubble with either of our sets of parents as we're not a single adult household and being in a bubble with one set of parents would exclude us from being in a bubble with the other set. But, saying that, if either of our sets of aging parents needed some support that they can't get otherwise then one of us (or our siblings) wouldn't think twice about doing what was necessary, even if that meant having more than one different non-single adult household visit them in short order. As it is we're making do with video calls and thoughts of 5 hour round trips (10 hours for her parents) to visit them as best we can without going into the house at all.

I think beer gardens are classed as part of the pub. Just the street or a park or something is OK though I guess.

Nope. Outdoors at a pub is fine. Here's the guidance for Tier 2 (High):-

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/local-covid-alert-level-high#meeting-family-and-friends

"
Visiting other venues, including shops, restaurants, pubs and places of worship

Venues following COVID-secure guidance can host more people in total, but no one must mix indoors with anyone who they do not live with (or have formed a support bubble with) unless exemptions apply. Outdoors, you can meet in groups of up to 6 people.

This includes in:

• pubs and restaurants
  
• shops
  
• leisure and entertainment venues
  
• places of worship
  
  

At least one person in your group should give their contact details to the venue or check in using the official NHS COVID-19 app so NHS Test and Trace can contact you if needed.
"

Today in London there is no rule against having a cup of tea in the living room with someone from outside your household though so why people are claiming to be in a bubble is beyond me.

Of course that is different on Saturday. My father is about to get his first smartphone. Setting it up with him is going to be awkward, I suppose I'll have to sit in his garden.

Looking at the headlines you may be in tier 2 now as well.
Bloody hell this is both crap and very fast moving.

Today in London there is no rule against having a cup of tea in the living room with someone from outside your household though so why people are claiming to be in a bubble is beyond me.

Sure the restrictions aren't in place right now but what I was saying goes back to the last lockdown. I think people are still talking about it as pre-justification for what they're now going to be doing outside of the rules.

It's more the "Well, I can just claim to be in their support bubble" that tends to be used as an excuse for ignoring the regulations.

So it is. That's a bit better than I thought. Not sure why I thought otherwise.

at what point do you just say to yourself:
"y'know what, all these guidelines and tiers and what not have been arrived at by a shower of utter know-nothings who have routinely ignored science - maybe it's best if i just stay the fuck indoors and away from anyone, at least until such time as a provable improvement can be observed."

shirley that seems the most sensible thing to do right now.

The government have just told greater Manchester mps that tier no decision has been made on introduction of tier 3 measures but seem to have been briefing Sky News and BBC at the same time that the measures have been signed off.

shirley that seems the most sensible thing to do right now.

But it means the people that chance it get to have all the fun. Tragedy of the commons style.

no decision has been made on introduction of tier 3 measures but seem to have been briefing Sky News and BBC at the same time that the measures have been signed off.

Interestingly had the notification come through on my mobile too.