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I'm not sure I'd agree personally, they're currently powering the only team that can even compete with arguably the most dominant car in F1 history (haven't looked at the stats but the only thing I can imagine coming close is Vettel's new Williams), and the only engine manufacturer to achieve wins with multiple teams (sure that was fortunate, but a damn good brag).
Though the Alonso period was definitely not a good time for Honda, they've really come on strong since.
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Red Bull don’t have any expertise in-house, but Honda engine R&D is in Milton Keynes, so not a million miles away. Pretty sure the engine (or at least some of it) is developed there because the Honda engineers seemed to be using it as some kind of HQ when I was working there and that’s how Christian Horner kind of referred to it as. Could have misinterpreted that though.
I can’t say how much was moved in-house with the switch to Honda power because it was after I left. I know they had in-house electronics capability and I can see that some of the carbon parts on the engine are definitely Red Bull designed and made, not Honda.
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Wasn't aware of the engine R&D being based there! Every day's a school day
If I were putting money on it I'd still say Renault power or leaving F1 are more likely at this point IMO. Didn't realise that Merc aren't actually allowed to supply any more teams given their current number of customers. So it's Renault, Ferrari or nothing. Neither are particularly appealing at this point.
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With the exception of Russell (potentially) missing out on a point and Hamilton not really being tested by Verstappen i thought that was a pretty decent race. Ricciardo drove the socks off that Renault, good to see him/them on the podium. I'm not really sure the Hulk deserves a seat back in F1 but it was still great to see him putting in a good performance.
Albon's seat under threat from Perez?
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I'm not really sure the Hulk deserves a seat back in F1
I'm in two minds, like many others he's been in the sport for a long time, not had a major impact and is likely past his prime (though Raikkonen and Rossi are both performing pretty well for a pair of 40 year olds, so not sure how accurate that is). On the other, he's a great personality IMO.
Considering his experience of driving that car at that track before the race was qualifying alone, I thought that was a pretty great drive!
Albon seems like a lovely person but has the usual Red Bull issue of not being able to prevent Max getting out-played by having to deal with a pair of Mercs by himself. Honestly think Perez would be a good bet there (though I'm not sure how happy Red Bull are pulling in drivers from outside their academy). Don't think either of the Alpha Tauri guys are going back to Red Bull and it seems like a big jump to throw Tsunoda into that seat at this point.
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he's a great personality IMO
I'm a big fan of his and would love to see him paired with Russell in a mid flight team but the older/wiser vs younger/faster combo seems like it's becoming less popular.
RB have been pretty rigid in there structuring but given the engine issues they face Perez's speed and financial backing would be a good move. Can't see him and Verstappen Jelling all that well though!
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older/wiser vs younger/faster combo seems like it's becoming less popular
I'd be betting on an excellent example of that at Alfa Romeo next season!
Can't see him and Verstappen Jelling all that well though!
I dunno, I think Verstappen is one of the few who genuinely isn't bothered by who his teammate is, and will just get his head down and beat whoever. Would love to see him an Leclerc in the same team.
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Love Danny Ric:
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Yeah it goes without saying that Vettel's had a terrible year. I'm (optimistically) putting that down to a combination of his 'need' for having a car with a planted rear and a shitbox of a Ferrari that Leclerc is doing a frankly amazing job in.
Will be interesting to see how he fairs next year, if he gets beaten by Stroll his reputation will be shot to pieces.
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Marko stirring again; has said Hulkenberg is an option for 2021 for Red Bull. Interesting the Autosport article says:
Red Bull is much more relaxed about Albon's form though, and believes he has the potential to be as close to Verstappen as it wants him to be.
I guess what they want is a good 2nd driver who can back up their #1 rather than someone who takes points away from Max.
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I'm not sure I'd agree personally, they're currently powering the only team that can even compete with arguably the most dominant car in F1 history (haven't looked at the stats but the only thing I can imagine coming close is Vettel's new Williams), and the only engine manufacturer to achieve wins with multiple teams (sure that was fortunate, but a damn good brag).
Though the Alonso period was definitely not a good time for Honda, they've really come on strong since.
Oh, I agree that they've done very well - I'm a Honda F1 fan - but what I mean is the press, and the associated public opinion of their current stint in F1 hasn't exactly been great.
No matter the talk of technology transfer, engineering advancement etc etc these companies are expecting a marketing return from some of their investment, and I think it's fair to say that on that count Honda have not realised their expectations.
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No matter the talk of technology transfer, engineering advancement etc etc these companies are expecting a marketing return from some of their investment, and I think it's fair to say that on that count Honda have not realised their expectations.
I agree on that, but has anyone looked good aside from Mercedes in that respect? Renault have moved up to 2nd worst due to Ferrari dropping the ball but that's about as positive as you can say for any of the non-Mercedes manufacturers.
Sure, they're not the best manufacturer out there, but they're the only ones anywhere near challenging a ridiculously dominant Mercedes team.
In short, I'm not surprised that they've pulled the plug. On the other hand, if every engine manufacturer behaved like that, the sport would die pretty quickly.
I'd be interested to see if there's any decent comparisons between the money they spend in F1 vs Indycar. While they're winning in Indycar and I'm sure that's a good marketing point in the US, it'd be interesting to see how that stacks up worldwide vs runner up in F1.
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Posted by
@mmccarthy
Can't imagine RB have any sort of engine development capacity in house. I don't know much about engine development but I imagine it'd take a lot more than just poaching the Honda engineers that the team regularly works with.
But yeah, don't think the Renault unit will exactly be a drag and drop replacement so they're certainly in a pickle. Merc won't want to give their closest rival their engine and they probably wouldn't touch a Ferrari engine with a bargepole. Since Renault have no customers they'd be forced to supply them.
Honestly at this point if F1 shit the bed and all the star drivers moved to a spec series I wouldn't really mind. But I'm more on the F1 racing fan side as opposed to the F1 tech fan side.