Undergrad courses? Inspiration for non-neurotypical students

Hi
I and Ms Skulls are on the hunt for recommendations for Physics courses, undergraduate, for our son. He’s a socially anxious and gifted-in-physics 16yr old, Asberger’s type, who’s going to need a lot of help to get him to even apply for courses. We need to get him inspired and motivated asap, as change and organising things are dead hard for him.

I think he perhaps needs to combine Physics with something non-science such as Philosophy. But the primary focus probably needs to be physics.

Anyone got any pointers, particularly London or near London, where cuttingedgelord physics people should apply? He’d probably do best staying at home (of course we wouldn’t stop him moving out, but the signs are he won’t).

We have no idea what physics is about, he hardly talks to us about it, but we’re told he’s got the potential to take it further.

Any help, or general chat about helping non-neurotypical kids transition to higher ed gratefully received.

Imperial college is king of science within the london unis, very tough to get in and not sure if it'll be suitable, but well worth it if it is.

I can't help with the specifics of non-neurotypical university experience. But some family and friends have been working in natural sciences, which are very physics heavy. My cousin came to it through Cambridge, and now works on research. My understanding of the course was that the idea is to look at a more holistic approach required to work in bleeding edge research. As a course option it might be worth a look?

For university I believe UCL and Cambridge are the go to options. They tend to do a maths plus 2 system from the second year, with the first year giving an example of all the seperate options. I'm sure there is an option to move across to pure physics if it's a bad fit.

Thanks

... and thanks.

I feel silly asking really but sometimes asking cyclists seems like a great way to find out what some pretty reasonable people think.

I did my undergrad at UCL (history not physics) so can offer some advice about the university in general.

Lots of friends who did interdisciplinary courses felt a little lost as quite often you find you sit between two departments rather than belonging to one. However, at least with humanities you were able to take credits from other courses. I’m not sure if that’s possible with physics but I think you could, for example, be a physics student and take a course each term in philosophy. It’s definitely worth talking to each department to see just how feasible it is though as I know sometimes it could work in theory but not in practice (timetabling or prior knowledge required etc).

In terms of support, the centralised UCL administration is a bit rubbish, and good pastoral support depends quite heavily on department. We had a very good support system in History, but definitely worth talking to the physics faculty to see what their systems are rather than relying on the core administration alone.

I wouldn't recommend UCL from a pastoral support/care perspective. I have studied there and much of my London-based friendship group also studied there, most recently my ex completed a master's in Medical Anthropology there. They were absolutely atrocious in supporting friends who had any 'needs' of any sort, from friends suffering from mental health issues to my ex struggling with visas etc.

In the end, the 'prestige/level' of the uni is secondary to the experience - not of drinking etc - but of feeling an affinity with the subject matter, how it is taught and what opportunities it offers. And in my experience, the more prestigious the university and course I attended, the worse the quality of teaching and the engagement professors had with students.

I studied (Astro)physics at UCL and there wasn't obvious great pastoral support in the department then (2002-5) but they were good if you asked. UCL seems to be like that, happy to let you get on with stuff but will try and help out if you ask.

He’s a socially anxious and gifted-in-physics 16yr old, Asberger’s type

I don't want to make light of anyone's condition but this described a good proportion of people on the straight physics stream. I would guess he will find similar people which may be seen as a good thing.

Hey Skully!
I'd recommend the BASc course at UCL, or a Liberal Arts style Interdisciplinary course where he can combine maths with anything else he wants (like this one).

I am affiliated with a course like this, typically our students are very high achievers that combine an art and sciences to do something amazing. PM me if you want some more deets.

I studied at UCL at a "mature" masters student, so can't really comment on the pastoral side of it, but that's not what I came here to say.

Leeds Uni, where I did my undergrad back in 2004-08 had specific joint honours "departments" where if you were doing a combined course they would be your parent school. They had one for arts, languages, and sciences. it was a bit of a funny system. I think if you were doing, say french and management you'd be jhml (joint honours modern languages) but if you did french and computing suddenly you became jhs.

although it's in leeds, so...

Imperial college

My alma mater - but that was 20 years ago (and I studied Chemistry). I can't comment on current pastoral support, as it'll be completely different now from when I was there - but the tutor system in the chemistry dept was certainly helpful for some of my classmates, even though it was a bit luck-of-the draw who you got as a tutor - and then they would recommend other support from there.

By a strange sort of circular coincidence, I do work near there and am very happy to see whether I can pick up some literature, ask who to contact about this kind of thing within the university, etc, and send anything on should you need it - but they're bound to be able to provide this gratis also.
(Obviously dependent on whether they actually let people in given the Covid situation)

One thing I would observe is that the Imperial chemistry course(s) have a lot of physics options within them, especially within the 'physical chemistry' strands - I was staggered by how much physics bias my own course had in this regard, even in electives that on the surface seemed not to. There are a few of the other science/engineering subjects that also contain significant amounts of physics content (materials science, biochemistry, natural sciences, etc.).

My other half also might have some contacts within the Institute of Physics, via their careers service and I will ask if she can make a few enquiries, if you like?

I also studied astrophysics at UCL and can second this. The pastoral support isn't immediately obvious but if it's flagged it's forthcoming.

The good thing about UCL physics is that it is a large multi-armed department which means that if you have chosen to study the straight physics course or one of the 'specialist' astro/theoretical/medical you still have a lot of the secondary options available to you. The core courses remain mostly the same (if I remember correctly, there's the base mathematics modules, thermal physics, quantum physics etc.) but you have freedom to pick and choose from the supplementary courses.

I enjoyed the practical astrophysics side of things, because UCL has its own observatory in Mill Hill which lets you play with telescopes in a very constructive way. Which may not be for your son if he is of the more socially introverted persuasion. The observatory means you have to work in close quarters with people often late into the night and in cold telescope domes.

To second leggy_blonde's view of the people on the straight physics course, I agree completely. There were plenty of very introverted individuals who seemed happy as a pig in muck on the physics course, especially so on the theoretical physics course. This one might be the best fit if you expect your son to enjoy sitting at a desk for hours on end attempting to comprehend incomprehensible mathematical problems.

I work in science. Surrey and Royal Holloway should be on your list and have good ties with big labs. Career options after undergrad can include phd, working in science at various labs, or stay in academia and focus on postgrad research. Lots of opportunities out there for even the most introverted persons - no need to worry about that in the science world!

Would hearing about future career options help motivate your son? Several mates and mates of those mates did Physics at Imperial: one has a massive research project studying gravity.

If he has hobbies or outside interests, another mate now programmes finance software (working mostly from home, making plenty of £ and allowing him time to do his own thing); I don’t remember what the others do but it’s not strictly physics and they do well for themselves. A cousin did physics at MIT and is raking in the cash at one of the Big 4; a large consultancy might be too noisy an environment for your son, but there’s bound to be a forward-thinking boutique firm that would happily accommodate and pay well for a certain skill set. A former colleague’s physicist son now works for a major video game producer helping work out the in-game physics engines for AAA titles.

Studied Physics via Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Neurotypical myself but my ex-girlfriend at university had fairly serious Asperger's. There was reasonable support, especially when she started to realise what she needed and who to talk to. It's true that many physicists and mathematicians everywhere will be on the spectrum, and at Cambridge my experience was lots of people from all subjects are (my girlfriend at the time studied music). I'd recommend "The New World of Mr Tompkins" by Gamow for a fun physics book that talks about some mind blowing concepts you encounter as a physics undergrad, and certainly in non-Corona times the institute of physics, royal society and London unis do evening lectures, which were great. Happy to chat more about Physics or my experience of Cambridge's autism support and awareness, just ping me a DM.

Does he have the maths chops for it? You'll ideally want Maths and Further Maths at A-level to stand a chance of it.

If staying in London, I'd say Imperial and UCL were the two Physics heavyweights, but TBH at an undergrad level the teaching is probably going to be much of a muchness, and you might want to think about the student experience - I know Queen Mary and Royal Holloway also offer Physics courses.

Imperial's a bit of a funny old place; as a STEM university there's perhaps less chance of doing a joint honours course with a humanities subject, but they do try and provide a rounded experience through extracurricular activities, and there is a centre for languages and humanities that offers credit and non-credit modules. The flip side of the STEM institution is that there are lots of non-neurotypical types about. I had slightly mixed experiences with the pastoral support when I was there, but that was the best part of two decades ago. I've still got a couple of mates who are lecturers in the Physics department, so if he wants more info on any particular aspects ping me a DM and I'll see if I can put them in touch.

joint honours course with a humanities subject

I think there might be something with the Royal college of music though? But this might be a useless point.

The flip side of the STEM institution is that there are lots of non-neurotypical types about.

This is true but the pastoral support is next to zero.If you compare my sister (maths) at Oxford, with me (maths, mechanical engineering and a joint course at the RCA) and brother at imperial (physics) it's 2 opposite experiences.

Geology or geophysics department is an exception with active pastoral support. Lots of people like it, but some see it as too much personal meddling.

I think that Imperial prepares you for life by slamming you, Oxford prepares you with a slowly slowly catch the monkey approach.

Writing this on a turbo and I keep remembering things.... Collectively we left 2/3years ago . If you want questions about physics answered my brother will be happy to help. And I definitely have some not typical behaviours. If I'm doing something the world around me turns off, my brain works really well with repetition, and when me, girlfriend and family watched free solo we had already had a lot of matching conversations.

Yes, IIRC there's a Maths and Musics degree (and possibly Theoretical Physics and Music?), but I figured that was a bit niche. Agree on the tough love approach; there is more support available, but you have to go hunting for it. OTOH, though the Oxbridge college/tutorial-based system would seem to be better from a pastoral POV, I've heard some horror stories there as well.

Wow.

Feeling slightly overwhelmed. Or at least sufficiently whelmed.

Thanks so much to everyone who's replied. Seriously. And to the one or two who've been in touch via DM. I have a take some time to read all this^ carefully and will try to reply to individuals' help offered. Cheers! As I said, I know so little about Higher Ed for science.

Hope this can start a more general discussion about education for non-neurotypicals.