Covidspiracy theories

I generally follow the rule to assume cock-up rather than conspiracy, but some people don't. Step forward Van Morrison:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/18/van-morrison-fascist-bullies-anti-lockdown-covid-songs

What I think is beyond dispute is that pretty much everyone is trying to use the crisis for their own pre-existing objectives under cover of the claim that the crisis really means there can be no more delay, and I also have no problem at all with discussions about whether this or that policy is the right policy, much though I decided early on that I wasn't going to try to become an expert in virology and epidemiology, and I also doubt that it's a viable route for most people.

Anyway, there's much worse around than Morrison's songs, but I thought it might make a nice thread starter.

This is currently the London version:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/19/coronavirus-protesters-in-london-may-get-arrested-police-warn

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/trafalgar-square-protest-london-coronavirus-a4551266.html

It seems to be a smallish number of people, but this by-now typical coalition of assorted strange beliefs like 'anti-vaxxing' now broadening its portfolio by embracing a general covidspiracy theory (although I imagine there must be many variants of it).

Trying to pull together something on all the variants of Covid-19-related nonsense. The bleach thing obviously figures, with tragic consequences:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/19/bleach-miracle-cure-amazon-covid

Here's a useful list compiled by researchers at King's in London:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/investigating-the-most-convincing-covid-19-conspiracy-theories

Short version:

1) 'Plandemic'

2) Virus is man-made ('engineered')

3) Pandemic is caused by 5G

4) Hydroxychloroquine is a cure (including the bleach problem)

From the article:

The rise of fear and misinformation around COVID-19 has allowed promoters of malicious matter and hate to engage with mainstream audiences around a common topic of interest, and potentially push them toward hateful views.
– Professor Neil Johnson

Even more concerning, is that most people have no idea that some of the agents spreading them are doing so for their agendas. By exploiting the uncertainty surrounding the pandemic these agents attempt to push people towards divisive and politically polarising views, creating distrust in mainstream media and science.

Finding myself getting increasingly angry at the people on Twitter claiming that Sweden not having a lockdown is proof that lockdowns don't work when Sweden has a death rate x10 worse than their Scandinavian neighbours who did lock down.

Bonus points if they refer to it as 'Free Sweden'.

Tend to find that the people calling it Free Sweden also like to say that Sweden is in the grips of Sharia Law and people are afraid to leave their homes. Go figure.

Yes, I had some internet advertising try to push a Spectator piece at me with a title something like 'It's time to admit the Swedish experiment has failed' the other day. Make up your fucking minds, folks!

Why do they keep bringing Sweden into it?

I guess most Swedish news doesn't tend to be big news so maybe it's easy to make fake news about it and spread it to English speaking countries?

Sweden has one of the highest incidences of rape in the world. Mostly down to the fact that the threshold for a rape charge is set very low there and people are more empowered to report sex offences to the police because they take them more seriously than other countries.

Why am I mentioning rape? Far right groups are blaming the high rape cases in Sweden on Muslim immigrants even though there is zero evidence to suggest that immigrants are behind the numbers. The question shouldnt be why is there so much rape reported in Sweden. The question should be why is rape so underreported elsewhere.

Separately, after the end of the Balkan wars a load of eastern European crime gangs moved to Sweden bringing military hardware with them. This has led to a load of nasty incidences with hand grenade attacks and shootings with military weapons in public places. Despite the fact that these have tended to be gang related attacks, the far right, especially in the US is pinning this on recent Muslim migration also.

Anyway, as a result, Sweden has become a cause celebre for the far right.

Not saying Sweden doesn't have problems, more that their problems are being hijacked to push agendas elsewhere.

I think possibly because it's seen as a model social democracy, which is something the people pushing this line are keen to discredit? I also think the focus on Sweden brings in the ideal of a blond-haired blue-eyed Nordic racial identity; whether conscious or not, I don't think it's coincidental.

Weird the view from here (Sweden) is generally the strategy was a success and all those silly countries that locked down are just going clobbered over winter 🤷🏻‍♂️

...and Sweden still has fewer deaths per million than the UK. Is that down to differences in recording data or did the UK govt truly achieve the worst of both worlds?

What we also have is a fucked up elderly care system that is very likely to be the reason for many of the deaths.

I've stopped reading news and following the whole C19 thing as it just made the whole world a bleak place to be though, so I can't really argue my point. It's far more complex than just lockdown vs no lockdown.

Weird the view from here (Sweden) is generally the strategy was a success and all those silly countries that locked down are just going clobbered over winter

That might well turn out to be the case if that situation remains the same until Spring.

Doesn't explain why Sweden has done so much worse than its neighbours though.

At the moment Sweden has statistically done worse than it's neighbours, but that's potentially like reporting a half-time score as the final score. As @jv said, they might sail through winter with ease whilst other countries that implemented lockdown suffer. It'll probably be a couple of years before we can accurately assess which strategies worked better than others.

Absolutely true. Although I think its possible to say they have had x10 the death rate of their Scandinavian neighbours so far.

Seems a bit early to say that no lockdown has worked well given that so many more people died. Its also too early to say that if Sweden had locked down they wouldn't have had x10 higher death rate than their neighbours.

Had to look up stats for the Nordics to get a better understanding

According to https://covid19.who.int/

Sweden: 581.82 deaths per million
Finland: 61.91
Norway: 49.25
Denmark: 111.01

So yeah, we're far worse compared to our neighbors. Our confirmed cases are also much higher. Does that mean we're doing more testing, or do we have more cases? (sorry for sounding like Trump)

It'd be interesting to see the stats coupled with top level information on how deaths are counted and reported, population density, average life span, age of the deceased, level of overcrowding in low income areas, etc

I'm going to make a completely unscientific theory that by the end of it all (as much as there can be an 'end'), Sweden could have a comparatively similar (maybe a little higher) death rate to their Scandinavian neighbours, but a much less impacted economy and generally better mental health state.

I think the people reporting it as already having 'worked' are likely the people who disagree with lockdown and are looking for evidence that support this. Different people also have different definitions of success in those terms, some seem to think that protecting the economy at all costs was paramount, saving lives was just a bonus.

I had a quick skim of the testing stats earlier and none of those countries seem to be testing a huge amount differently to each other apart from Denmark

Sweden 151k tests pm
Norway 184k
Finland 169k
Denmark 613k

I'm going to make a completely unscientific theory that by the end of it all (as much as there can be an 'end'), Sweden could have a comparatively similar (maybe a little higher) death rate to their Scandinavian neighbours, but a much less impacted economy and generally better mental health state.

I have a hunch that it might work out that way too. Just get really pissed at the people saying look how much of a success Sweden has been when its too early to say.

As of the beginning of August the Swedish economy had contracted by about 9%

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Useful additional snippet of info, the latest randomised survey showed that about 6% of Swedish people have Covid antibodies so a long way from herd immunity. The unemployment rate is also higher than their neighbours.

Have also read this and yet the rate seems to be going down? Can’t say I understand that tbh, I see very little social distancing and no masks (also know 3 people personally who have died from Covid here and only one was a senior).

This is quite incredible and probably tells you most of what you need to know about the people who put up these posters:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/08/london-transport-staff-warned-of-razors-inside-covid-conspiracy-posters