Bike fit / correct riding position

Check stack and reach etc. Plus the stem angle website is very useful.

You are taking a position from a relaxed endurance bike to an aggressive race bike though...

Does crank length change saddle setback?

I'm aware I need to adjust saddle height to suit the increase/decrease but I've not found anything to say I should change my setback position.

Seat tubes are angled. If you're increasing the seat height then it's also moving the saddle backwards a bit, depending on seat tube angle. So yeah, you might need to adjust fore/aft when changing seat height (from changing crank length).

Cheers, makes sense. I've stuck with 165's on recent bikes due to a knee niggle but I'm gonna give the 172.5's a go that just came with my new bike as it's probably gonna end up being short rides only.

So saddle down and possibly back a little.

Should prob move saddle nose forward instead of back to maintain the same position, id think.

With around a 73degree seat angle when you move the saddle down 3mm it comes forward about 1mm anyway. So if you lower it 8mm to go from 165s to 172.5s it’ll come forward about 2-3mm anyway.

Recomendation for a bike fit for trying out loads of womens saddles and consultation on a new bike?
Ideally want to avoid my partner paying for a full fit for her current bike, almost certain it is too big/aggresive and needs to go. Prefer a shop that isn't going to push it's own frames eithers.

Cadence seem to offer a saddle testing service and I think velophysio has been mentioned here as somewhere good for women(?).

Sigma sports in Hampton.
Only heard good things and they've got saddle pressure mapping gizmo

thanks - somehow missed this.

reach is only 2mm shorter but stack is significantly lower (36.5mm), given the nature of the bikes. I'm 5'11/181cm tall and just don't know if my frame size (M/54) is one too small or if I'm just used to the super relaxed geometry of the arkose at this point. been having shoulder issues this season, due to straining it last august and had a professional bike fit on the arkose with the only change being to put a longer stem on - this got me a less compressed position and made me long/low and has been working out. think I just need to work on strengthening the shoulder muscles and refining the position on both bikes......

Anyone got any advice for choosing an MTB frame size based on a road bike fit please? Should the saddle be in the same place on both styles of bike?

I have a 54cm Trek Emonda which Scherrit thought was a touch too big, I'm now looking at a Surly Karate Monkey [as a first MTB] and I'm on the cusp of small or medium at 172cm/just over 5'7. If I run my road saddle position [705mm BB to mid-saddle, 47mm of saddle layback], then I reckon the small is the right size.

Can anyone offer any advice? I can share my full road fit if it helps.
Thanks in advance!

Maybe ping Scherrit an email to ask?

If you were racing XC then you'd probably worry about them being the same. If you're just a hobbyist then you can probably cope with differences. I know mine are different. But I don't do any big miles on the MTBs. You tend to be able to get a lot more adjustment out of an MTB frame (sloping top tube + more seatpost) so you're mostly looking at how long the thing is gonna be. But then you'll likely be running much shorter stem and much wider bars so I dunno where it puts your hands relative to a road bike position, I just adjust mine until I like them. Test ride?

Cheers guys, thanks for your thoughts. I feel a bit guilty pestering Scherrit, I’ve already emailed him a few times since my last fit with lengthy questions! I need to go back and see him I think.
Thanks Hippy, those are good points, and yeah the wider bars and shorter stem is making any comparison hard in my head.
Might just try a few MTB’s out at the local bike shops, to get an idea of the position, there’s no chance of any Surly stock until 2021 now though.

MTBs are tricky. A wider bar has the same effect as a shorter stem on a road bike - it brings your upper body forwards - so it depends what width bar you'll be using. Which in part depends what terrain you'll be riding, which also determines the seat tube angle. And that's going to depend in part on how long the front end of the bike will be. And whether or not you'll be using a dropper post. Internet bike fits for road bikes are hard, but I reckon they're even harder for MTBs. Another trip to Scherrit sounds like a good plan.

Not sure on the Karate Monkey, but the trend these days is to size up and use a shorter stem/wider bars. Saddle should likely be further forward than on your road bike to aid seated climbing. Most MTB seat posts are inline. Dropper seat posts are quite long so bear in mind the seat tube length, shorter is better so you can use a long dropper post. Flat pedals and feet placed in the mid foot position offers greater levels of control off road, so if you currently pedal with the balls of your foot and "toes down" then you'll need to drop your saddle quite a bit. Shorter cranks can also be beneficial to help avoid pedal strikes.

Sorry for the delayed response chaps, thanks for your answers.
Brommers- Probably a standard bar, maybe 680mm. Definitely dropper post. Terrain-wise, South Downs, QECP and the surrounding singletrack, then in time moving onto routes like the Badger divide and areas like Glentress when I head north to visit friends. I’m thinking less of a slack modern bike, and more of a trail bike from what I’ve been reading.
Macaroon- good points thanks, notes about the dropper post length and the cranks. RE: sizing up and pushing the saddle forwards, this is all making me think that an M is more suitable than an S.
Which, given the lack of availability of an M frame currently in the U.K. gives me plenty of time to catch up with Scherrit! Cheers guys.

Bizarre indeed. Have you had any clients like this, @scherrit ?

https://youtu.be/iJzSYmCxHqM

Cleat position - I thought the consensus these days was to have a more rearward position, i..e. if in doubt move the cleats further back as there's less likely to be issues and it can help with foot stability as you're not trying to stabilise the foot at the same time as pedalling.

Saw podiatrist recently (for non-cycling assessment) and got chatting about cycling/ cleats. He reckons you should start with the cleats forward and only move back if there are issues. Anyone else come across this? Sounded like the opposite to general approach.

Moving the cleats backward takes out the Achilles ankle movement from pedaling which tends to help people doing long stuff when this tendon has a tendon-see (sorry) to get inflamed.

I ride midfoot, so I'm the extreme example of moving cleats back. It's lovely. Podiatrist without cycling knowledge perhaps?

He has a cycling specific service (which I wasn't there for and is suspended due to covid) so hence why I was surprised. Inclined to stick with Scherrit/ Steve Hogg etc general approach.

I am a man but velophysio is fantastic. Sorted me in 2 sessions. And I thought I was never going to ride again. Also relatively cheap for a bike fit.

Had a bike fit after at Racer Rosa with exactly the same geometry

Was wondering if I could request a bit of advice?

Been adjusting my bike with small changes over the last 5000km as I have started riding more this year. Have started riding longer distances (200km) recently and have been struggling with saddle positioning. I am hoping to ride 300/400k rides in the future and see how it goes.

I am riding an SMP pro lite which is by far the best saddle I have ever ridden, and places all of the pressure through my ischial tuberosities/sit bones removing all perineal pressure/numbness.

I have noticed that on rides longer than 150km the contact points on the sit bones still really hurt, and I'm wondering if this is relatively normal (and perhaps even a good thing) and that this area will toughen up a bit and heal accordingly - and if this is fine as presumably there are no delicate bits here just muscle and bone?

The damage has caused some minor bruising and skin flaking off, and it's been painful to get back on the bike the next day, but nothing more than that. Reassuring that there is no pressure anywhere else though.

Any advice? Cheers all and apologies for the high anatomical detail

Only going on personal experience, but when I switched to short nose saddles to sort out one problem, I found that some saddles just didn't fit my ischials properly and caused the exact symptoms you describe. Very bruised sitbones, skin flaking off, painful to sit back on the bike. It took me two weeks to heal properly.
I switched to a Specialized Power saddle and the problem never happened again, I can sit on that thing for 10+hours and never notice it's there

Went to a cycling podiatrist/fitter the other day for some custom insoles. He noted my knee is quite far beyond the pedal spindle and that I sit quite far forward (on the narrow part) of the saddle, and that it might be beneficial to move the saddle back so I can sit "on it" more. Has anyone done this? I feel like moving it back would only mean I sit further forward on it.

If you're scooting forward on the saddle, then it might suggest it's either too high, your reach to the bars is too far, or both.

my experience too, thanks @Acliff, previously wore 2 cycling shorts and chamois and still painful