Which Groupset?

I say the same for all derailleurs though, Di2 doesn't even let you cross chain.

Explain to new roadie that his 3k bike grinds in certain gears. I now look forward to him getting it back from the shop.

I've had my R7000 group now set up by two different shops. Both with very respectable mechanics. One front der setup was fantastic. Light, effortless shifts, no cross chain noise. Perfect. The other resulted in quite bad cross chain noise, heavy front shifting, poor trimming up front.

The latter shop most often works on Campag due to the nature of it's client base.

Is there just a knack to setting up newer Shimano FDs that not everyone has got the hang of yet?

They are different too set up compared to like pretty much every front mech for the last however many years there have been front mechs, I always check them when a bike comes in with one and they'll often be badly set up. Cross chain noise should be no worse than the older designs, but they also make noise in big/big or small/small and maybe the gears next to them.
Tell your mate and his new bike that it's just like Di2 and some gears won't work, but instead of the electrics stopping you use them, they make warning noises so you change gear manually.

https://si.shimano.com/#/en/DM/RAFD001

Shimano tell you how to do it all properly here.

Yeah, I've looked at the dealer manual and watched a couple of youtube videos. I'll let the shop tell him all about the limitations.

Quite happy with the shifting, can Etap rear shifting get worse if I run the fine tune?

if I want to run etap/12 speed but keep my current 11 speed shimano ultegra 6700 wheels... does anyone know if I can just change the freehub driver to achieve this?

You'd need an XDR driver. I'd be very, very surprised if Shimano or anyone else made an XDR driver for 6700 wheels or hubs. So no.

there is a 12 speed sunrace cassette that goes on 'normal' shimano freehub but its for MTB

Only if you're unable to fine tune a mechanical derailleur. It's pretty much the same thing, but easier.

I take it all back, had a shitty one today, pretty sure the short chainstays make a difference, small/small was horrible, next gear a bit on the noisy side. Had a look at mine after and all good with big ol'stays for decent tyres. Was probably also already annoyed because it was hot and the internal routing on giant defys is shite and I had to redo it to swap to internally routed bars, which are usually supershite but these weren't too bad.

The guy rode yesterday and was happy enough that he's trying his longest ride ever today, to Brighton and back, so I must've done a decent enough job. I still stand by my "fuck R8000 FDs". None of that fiddly bullshit is necessary.

Would you say this applies to 5800 mech too?

5800 is a normal front mech. I think that's what's on the grrl's bike. In which case it's way less bullshit to setup and just works, unlike this new R8000 bollocks.

Set height
Parallel it to chainring
Pull cable through
Set limits

Nah, as hippy says that's the more traditional style, like he says, set limits, L can be done without the cable attached to make sure tension isn't affecting it, or just be careful, H should be with too much tension if anything, or pull on the cable if it's not internally routed, then set tension so that the trim gives you a bit of movement in both directions, newer old style ones need a fair amount of tension.

Yeah ok. So what you’re saying is ... I’m just shit at setting up front mechs?

( f l o u n c e )

That's exactly what I was saying.

I recently swapped out a 5800 FD to an R8000 as I'm running a R7000 chainset with 5800 shifters. I followed the Shimano manual and also ditched the online adjuster and the improvement in shifting and cross chain rubbing was pretty significant.

Maybe I got a dud that actually works properly but I thought it was a really nice design. Same for the R8000 rd, works very nicely.

What's the chainline on a GRX 10sp double? Marketing says they've moved it out 2.5mm, but from where? Road Double? That would make it 41mm right?

I believe the traditionnal road double chainline is 47,5 mm - So GRX must about 50/

Does anyone have experience/feedback with campagnolo mechanical 12 speed groupsets ?

Fitted R8000 FD, works perfect in all gear positions

Set up an R8000 FD about 10 times on a CAAD12, took it to LBS twice and still get rub. Set another one up on a different bike with nominally same chainstay length and got it working the very first time, no rub at all. Still puzzles me.

My other half's bike has R8000, it's a Canyon so came mostly set up but the front wouldn't shift on to the big ring out the box. No problem I thought, I know how to adjust derailleurs, but actually had to look at the manual for that thing. Twice I set it up to work fine until shes actually riding it to work when it turns out it still doesn't shift properly and now also rubs the chain. Had to fully un-clamp the cable and start again with it.