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  • This is true, but even if there was the political will to fix it (there isn't) or the money (there isn't that either) how long do you think it would take?

    Not long at all. A couple of years at the most. Compare this to the immense speed with which London has exploded in the last two decades.

    Also it's not just about money. Many people in the south don't want to live in the north not for economic reasons but cultural ones.

    That's not a factor worth considering at all. If different people live somewhere, the culture will adapt. And I don't accept the very southern-centric idea that somehow the North is to looked down upon like that.

    I agree very much on derelict housing but are the numbers really there to fix the problem? I don't think so.

    They are. There are hundreds of thousands of empty properties around the country. Thousands of buildings at risk. With a few exceptions (the biggest heritage cases) fixing up existing buildings is quicker and cheaper.

    And I don't agree that Shelter talk rubbish. They are highly respected experts on housing and ending homelessness and housing issues.

    They talk just the same rubbish that everyone talks who accepts the false premise that there isn't enough housing. There's a conceptual sleight-of-hand here--of course, 'housing' must be that which is fit to live in, and many empty houses are not, so technically they don't count as 'housing'. That they can be fixed up means they are easily potential housing, though.

    I'm very much afraid that I don't rate Shelter's 'expertise' in this at all. I could say more, but I won't.

  • Pete, I've read all of this stuff. Just to give you an example:

    John Bibby from the charity Shelter explains that this is usually for economic reasons, such as local industries closing down.

    "Often its because the houses are in places where there aren't enough jobs, where actually those homes aren't really needed that much," he says.

    The feeling is that there is little point spending money on empty properties if no-one wants to move to the area where they are.

    "So this is not just a problem with needing more homes," John adds. "We need to have more homes where people actually want to live."

    This is, quite simply, a fallacy.

    My point stands.

    Also, my point about Shelter isn't even tangentially related to the point of view attributed to Michael Gove on 'experts'.

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