Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

Who knew square taper would be making a comeback in 2020.

It’s all about SKF square taper baby.

I'll leave this here.

There are many good 94bcd square taper mtb cranks that can do 46x30 sub compact gearing well. Ritchey Logic, Shimano XT, etc, etc.

Moving from this Q factor to a hollowtech XT’s is grim.

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Which, like most "new world" stuff would probably be named after the Caledonia here.

Guess it depends on the frame and chainring choice. Wider q-factor isn't likely to be much of an issue when you're just cruising around (unless you have sensitive knees) but it might be a factor when chainrings, etc. start fouling tyres.

My only concern is whether I'll be able to get new 11 speed rings. But admittedly that's gonna take a while.

I bought myself a Wolftooth chainring already, most likely to use a 130bcd.

Btw Ed, wrote you on insta, scrap that, I got another project!

Back in the game.

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Is that a Midnight Spesh?

I quite like the idea of one of those ... setup with dt shifting for added retrogrouch.

How do you use it and how do you like it?

I full expect to get the piss taken for this, perhaps I should just post it directly in the shit fixie skidder thread.

I’ve been think about getting a geared bike with fatter tires for sometime. I have the south downs way and the new forest all on my door step and not done much off road riding in those areas. Whilst I’ve been looking at all sorts of stuff. I’ve generally been of the view I was going to get a midnight special, Ive got nearly 40k miles on 2 surlys and love them. But I also fucking love my mash works and have ride that nearly 10k on and off road.

I was just scrolling through the frames on triton cycles and this comes up.

https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-forks-c6/road-frames-c47/tutto-plus-frameset-2020-p23583

I was also set on getting disc brakes but in all honesty if its wet, or even looks like it’s going to be wet I’m not going to ride a geared bike, so perhaps discs won’t be such a big deal.

However, how much of a pain in the arse are horizontal dropouts going to be with a rear mech, I assume it doesn’t have drop out screws.

Other considerations, money, as ever, when did surlys get so expensive! relatively speaking, some how All City want £1200 for a frame these days. £750 seems about the lowest price I can find from a reputable dealer for the midnight special. Beyond that if I go with the surly I’ll need wheels, shifter/brakes, rear mech, cassette. I’ve got a chainset and finishing kit, so all in I’m looking at another £750 but more like £1000 on top of the price of the frame.

The tutto I could get on the road for £800-£1000 I’ve got a rear wheel and it can share a front wheel with another bike, I’d just need some shifters and a rear mech.

But I’m concerned about those drop outs and a rear mech. What do you think ?

It is, with carbon forks. I like it a lot.

I had DT shifters on it but ultimately switched them to brifters as I began riding it a lot and felt they were slowing me down. They don’t make sense for 10 speed, when shifting is much more frequent. I’d be happy with them on a leisurely tour.

The frame is well finished and feels very solid. It rides like a responsive road bike, so the geo is good. If I’m still getting on well with it in a few years and it feels like a keeper I’d consider having it remade with lightweight tubing.

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v nice

Very late to the party but, thank you. This was great, think I agree with all 7 points.

This is real nice. Have you done any longer rides on it? Umming and ahhing about one of these vs. a Straggler - probably kidding myself that I'll make use of the MS' off road capabilities, when really it'll mostly be day rides / light touring.

Carbon fork looms gear in that!

I won't be that much of an issue, just remount the wheel in the same approximate place. The derailleur works, for the most part, horizontally. Or just make a mark.

From my understanding the Midnight is less of an off-road-specific design than a Straggler. I think it's a Pacer replacement - a road bike (with a ton of tyre).

Interesting. I'm wondering if there are any big differences between the Straggler & MS, other than tyre clearances?

Midnight Special’s front end will be a bit more responsive to steering input. Front end will probably be a bit stiffer too due to the 44mm headtube.

Geo wise, for the same size (54) your stack is just over 1cm higher on the Midnight Special. Reach is 0.7cm shorter. The BB is also 7mm closer to the ground which is much more road orientated. Will feel more glued to the ground going through corners and as if it’s on rails.

It also has vertical dropouts. Which are much better than horizontal IMO. Especially if you plan to use mudguards.

The Midnight Special is a much better bike from a feature and geometry perspective IMO. Should be easier to get a good fit without a huge spacer stack.

I expect the MS would make an amazing audax machine.

Thanks for this, much appreciated. Seems like the MS ticks all the boxes! Just wish it was a little bit cheaper.

The other (cheaper) option I was considering was a Sonder Santiago, but we'll see what I think if I manage to take an MS for a test ride.

It’s pretty much as @JB described. It’s perfect for mixed-surface rides, which I do quite a bit around Epping into Essex. 30km-ish on lanes with 20km-ish diving into the forest or good bridleways. I related a bit to that angry guy on YouTube but at the same time thought he was talking nonsense: yes, USA-style gravel doesn’t exist here, but all-road riding is readily available and a joy.

It’s marginally slower than my 29er through Epping Forest, but it’s far quicker on the tarmac to and from. And it’s much more exciting to skitter across the gravel paths on 47c slicks. Underbiking is fun!

@t.b. I haven’t done any longer tours on it yet but I have done 100km+ rides. It really is a road bike with fat tyres. It’s very different to a Straggler or modern gravel bike with slack geo.

I built it after riding an Ardennes off-road tour last summer on an adapted 26" Rockhopper. It was perfect in the woods but terrible on the road. The Midnight Special should solve that problem.

Copper roof paint is clever.
Really looks like it belongs in a pittoresque village or some small history museum.

+1 for underbiking!