EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Next year I can fly to a meeting in (say) Madrid, but I can't then spend a few days working from my hotel. One is fine, the other would make me an illegal immigrant

Interesting. The rules seem to be similar if coming to the UK.

Other parts of the world, for example the US Visa Waiver program, seem less restrictive.

Of course we didn't need a visa waiver program with EU countries when we had FOM.

So, one could yet be negotiated with the EU, but I won't hold my breath.

Lovely stuff, refresh at your leisure

https://fuckingtoldyou.com/

So, one could yet be negotiated with the EU, but I won't hold my breath.

"easiest in human history" said the disgraced former defence secretary Dr Fox.

No wonder Neil Fox changed his styling.

Sorry, what's N26? I've never used AirBnB myself.

The 500/month into a bank account is doable. At least you still have the money.
Taking out health insurance though seems a bit pointless if I'm not actually there at the moment. I understand this is likely just a box ticking exercise. I wonder if there's a way to use my current health insurance? Or is it more like an NI contribution you're talking about that essentially pays for their health system? In which case, I don't really mind, especially if I can get over there for a while.

it'd cost €75 to get someone to walk you through it, book the appointments and set up the forms.

Do you have any recommendations of someone legit?

The 500/month into a bank account is doable. At least you still have the money.

It's €. Decent chance you will get more out than you put in if you do bring it back.

I don't want to fall foul of either country's laws so if I'm not in Spain for 6 months and keep paying UK I'm cool on that side, but then I worry about not paying tax in Spain and any implications of that for me living there? I see it being fair enough if I didn't pay tax there I shouldn't get services, so I would want to pay tax there but then this makes it awkward for my company - they don't have a presence there and I could see them going "nup, too hard basket".

Do you have a job in Spain or a UK job? Are you fulling in the Spanish system I guess I'm asking?

They really fucked us on Brexit didn't they? Wonder if I can get my money back on this British citizenship when I leave?

#rep

they don't have a presence there and I could see them going "nup, too hard basket".

I think this is going to be the case for many (if not all).

We have an office in Paris, I'm asking them if I can transfer.

But then you're living in Paris? Do you want to do that? I'm only interested in Spain, not somewhere we just happen to have an office. I'll do some more trips and see if I want Spain more than I want my current job, then make a call. Optimum is finding a way to do both.

We also have an office in Madrid, and Barcelona. I'm choosing to work for (not in) the Paris office because I have the rudiments (and boy are they rude) of French from my schooldays.

I'd want to live in the Alps somewhere.

I don't think I've explained it very well ...

So splitting it in two, first you have the residency requirements. I think this might apply everywhere in the EU, but in Spain, they require that you can show you can provide for yourself and have contributed to some form of healthcare plan. So the ways to do this that I know of are:

1. Have a salaried job in Spain, through which you pay Social Security (SS) etc. In this case, you have to show three months of pay checks with SS payments before you can apply for residency.

2. Register as a freelancer (autonomo). Same as above, once registered, you'll need to show that you've paid SS for three months. This is taken straight out of your bank account from when you register. This is how my wife and I got residency (though I since got a job), and it cost me €75 set-up and €50 a month for an accountant, and SS tops out at €250 p/m but only after two years of payments, (it is a sliding scale until then, and in the first 1 year it is €65).

3. Have proof that you can support yourself and your dependants, which is some figure for every month for 12 months. And have proof that you have paid for private's healthcare that is valid in Spain. I have no idea if UK-bought healthcare will cover you, but even if it does, you'd need something in Spanish. I have a few friends who did this.

Secondly, you have tax, which is really entirely separate from the above. As others have said, you have tax residency based on where you reside for the majority of the year, although it also applies that if you do work from a particular country, you should be paying tax there. So depending on which of the above 3 options you take, you'll have different options.

When we moved here, I was a freelancer in Spain, invoicing my wife and I's UK LTD company (I was a freelancer before I moved), which invoiced UK clients in £. This is what my wife does, working as a freelancer for her old agency. I checked with a few accountants about this and no-one gave me any warning signs.

We love it here, and so are extracting ourselves from the UK tax system right now, which means notifying HMRC that our house is being rented but we live abroad, and changing our status with our LTD company to being foreign-resident directors. But for the first year, we just existed in both systems to some extent. It didn't cost us anything more in tax though.

That makes sense. I only speak bad English, and about 20 words of Spanish now make sense to me. We have no offices outside London. #sadface

Thanks for all the detail!

So, let's say the first one is out.

Option 2 or 3 might work. With option 3, prove that I can support myself, is that just showing bank statements or something that shows income? Does it have to be Spanish accounts or Spanish income or can I just flash my UK bank statements?
Then let's just say I take out Spanish health insurance with option 3, would I also need to pay the SS charges mentioned in option 2? I'm just trying to work out which option is the least money and least hassle.

There's mention of HMO for foreign health insurance policies but I'd need to check mine to see if that was an option. It might be possible:
"plans cover you for treatment within the UK only, unless:
you have International membership
you have Stand-alone travel cover with us"

"There is very limited cover on the plan for treatment you have outside the
United Kingdom. We strongly advise you to take out travel insurance when
travelling abroad."

Sounds like it's probably easier to take out a separate Spanish Health insurance policy:
Sanitas private health plan for an individual €100 - €200 per month
Adeslas private health plan for individual €164 per month
Asisa Integral private health plan for individual €51.30 per month
Convenio Especial, pay-in public insurance (SNS) €60 up to the age of 65, €157 for 65+

So, to tax, I'm PAYE in the UK now and I presume my current employer is gonna be like "what the fuck?" if I tell them not to take out UK tax like everyone else. I doubt we have accounting departments that will want to deal with Spanish tax details. I could pay in both countries but that makes it a bloody expensive proposition.

IR35, which was going to be broken this year but was pushed back another 12 months means that we are still paying contractors in other countries, but that won't work for me because I already moved to permanent PAYE employ.

So for option 3, (which is apparently called rentista), there is a wrinkle I didn't know that I just checked with my friends, which is you have to have three months of statements in the Spanish bank account showing you are able to support yourself. As a couple they had to show €12K, but think €6-7 is fine for an individual. They also had bills coming out, (lobster.es for a good mobile contract is great BTW), to make the account 'more real' and only had the final amount in there as they apply, slowly building it up.

And yes, it needs to be a bank account in Spain, and probably a high-street bank as they need to stamp the statements.

For the healthcare, they are with Sanitas, and it needs to be sin co-pago, and pre-paying for a year is most likely to succeed. If you have this, you don't need to pay for social security here.

For tax, there is an HMRC code whereby they don't take your tax out as you live abroad - I think you can speak with HMRC to find out the process, but it is your code, not your employers, so it shouldn't make a difference.

Also, just to be clear, there are a few hoops before residency; you need an NIE number to open a bank account, (myNIE delivered for us, highly recommended) and to rent anywhere even for a year. Then you need to register with the padron, which is like the local census. Then you get residency and then social security, if you need it (if you don't have private healthcare). Funnily enough the hardest part was social security for us!

I only know people who operate in Valencia for helping you through the residency and I think myNIE do it, but I imagine every major city has the same cottage industry - I'm pretty sure they bulk book all the appointments at the police stations so you have to go through them anyway.

I only speak bad English, and about 20 words of Spanish now make sense to me

Solo un poco.

I got quite into learning Spanish last year, kinda gave up once lockdown kicked in and the only family holiday we've managed to afford in the last 7 years got cancelled.
Nos estuvimos muy triste.

Yo necesito una cerveza, por favor and a bunch of other stuff I'll never utter about green dresses and cheap brown belts...

I know "muy triste" but not "Nosotros estuvimos"

It’s definitely better to come without knowing too much, because when you get here and then learn about the subjunctive mood and imperfect pronouns, it’s too late to give up!

Nosotros is like us others, so we. I think estuvimos is like past estamos/estar, so we were very sad, might be all arse about tit though. Maybe we need a basic English people fucking up Spanish conversation thread and I'll try to pick up learning again.

A Spanglish thread would be bueno, tengo que practicar mas

Sí, yo tambien.

I suspect it's not that hard work. My firm does it for one of my team and, to be honest, if it was that difficult we wouldn't have bothered.