#blacklivesmatter racism is a human problem

From the stats the racial disparity in policing seems pretty similar (with fewer guns). There is a difference in involvement in violent crime I think - but then definitions of violent crime aren’t the same.

I don’t know what the economic disparity is. I think it’s far, far greater in the US. Mean household wealth is x6 for whites.

I was hoping this is fake...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_St_Michael_and_St_George

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Met many high ranking UK dips overseas and in the U.K., all of them white. If Ambassadors are level 1 and their deputies are level 2, I’ve met a total of 3 non-white people at level 3 (although I’m sure there are many more; the jump from 3 to 2 is one of the big filters in the foreign service).

There are efforts to diversify the Foreign Service, but it’s pretty telling that the folks in charge are still white, usually Oxbridge grads with posh accents.

Just look at the stop and search figures for the Met police.

The image is that of St Michael trampling on Satan.

St. Michael

A "good" character depicted as a white man.

Vanquishing the baddie, satan, depicted as a black man.

Uh huh.

Not St George, I am led to believe it depicts St Michael based on this image and the foe is Satan apparently. St George only killed dragons right? Or was it infidels, or enemies in that holy war. So much for diplomacy ffs

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St Michel? Didn't he just kill the high street?

Probably @Chalfie

so in Britain, Saint Michael the destroyer of the high street. Also patron saint of grocers (conflict of interest?), mariners, paratroopers, police officers, and military personnel.

In Islam revered as no. 2 Archangel bringer of nourishment, sustenance and rain to feed crops. How fcuking ironic.. maybe he slaughtered a few crusaders too.

#nomorereligiouschatplease

Racial bias skews algorithms widely used to guide care from heart surgery to birth

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Wow. Just did a bit of googling of how Satan is depicted in certain cultures and periods of time.

Let's just say that it's, er, very complicated.

Oops. Of course, I meant St Michael. No idea how that happened. Mixing up my adopted saints there, sorry.

I agree, it’s not a good look. Thems were unenlightened times, I’m afraid. Much like now, it seems.

The debate regarding the promotion of good/evil, black/white with religious references reminded me of this interview.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53145201

Those fuckers that paid for this, the pilot and most probably the owners of said plane - sad backward cunts. The mindless intention to stage it to coincide with the match in order to have the greatest attention illustrates how deep rooted racism is ingrained in some people (of the far right rooted in Burnley).

Its good of Burnley FC to condemn it at the very least.

I've posted in the past in the kick ball thread about attending games at Burnley's stadium as an away fan. Not a nice place to enjoy the game when you hear racist stuff as a non-white spectator. Naturally, some members get a bit 'defensive' because it's their club.

Football is one area where racism was recently discussed well before the BLM movement gained pace here and conversations started but eventually died out. I fear the same thing will happen if BLM movement winds down.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/21/black-lives-mattered-revolt-cultural-debate-hostile-establishment

We may discover that the only thing more detrimental to a cause than doing nothing is doing a tiny bit and then thinking that’s enough.

If it's the comment I'm thinking of I think people more got "defensive" about an ill-informed commented about Burnley not having any non-white players in the team, similar to the comment from Darren Bent yesterday that Dwight McNeil wasn't too happy about.

Anyway, that's by the by. I'd say Burnley is pretty similar to a lot of working-class, industrial towns. It's gone through a few periods of huge change with various industries (cotton, mining, heavy engineering, etc) going from employing huge swathes of the population to virtually no-one. That then prompts a "brain drain" as a lot of the younger, more affluent people move out in search of jobs.

Although a lot of people in Burnley (and similar towns) are supportive of Black Lives Matter there is still a minority pushing back against it.

Some of them are just out and out racists. Tommy Robinson fanyboys who think they're in some kind of cultural "war" and are protecting "British" values (which coincidentally are just the same as their values). That's the kind of twat who sent the plane off yesterday (unsurprisingly he's already banned from going to matches) and, to be honest, I don't think much can be done to convince most of them. They're always going to be racist twats.

There's also the bigger group which are more the white/all lives matter. Not fundamentally racist but pissed off at the amount of focus on this area. They won't accept the idea of white privilege as they've had a hard life and don't accept that not being white can make it harder regardless of what statistics may show.

Realistically, I'm not sure if these people will be won over at the moment. Places like Burnley are usually in the top 10 in the country for most deprived places, educational achievement for white, working class boys is lowest out of all groups, unemployment is high, etc and a large part of the media and political establishment is telling them that this is due to immigrants, outsiders, etc coming in and taking their jobs, houses, benefits and the rest of it.

Hopefully other people will have some solutions but, without a huge shift in the country, I struggle to see this changing and I find it very depressing.

Although a lot of people in Burnley (and similar towns) are supportive of Black Lives Matter there is still a minority pushing back against it.

Is there evidence to support this? I hope it's true but I'm not sure how they are surveying support and resistance. Every time I hear it's a small minority it's hard not to think of the "few bad apples" term that has rightly become so problematic in the US.

There's also the bigger group which are more the white/all lives matter. Not fundamentally racist but pissed off at the amount of focus on this area. They won't accept the idea of white privilege as they've had a hard life and don't accept that not being white can make it harder regardless of what statistics may show.

Yeah this, I've heard/read it a lot lately.

There's also the bigger group which are more the white/all lives matter. Not fundamentally racist but pissed off at the amount of focus on this area. They won't accept the idea of white privilege as they've had a hard life and don't accept that not being white can make it harder regardless of what statistics may show.

It strikes me that these are the people addressed in the MLK letter from a Birmingham prison. Nor racist but not willing to change to allow a level playing field for people who have been systematically discriminated against. Unable to perceive their own privilege because not all of their life is perfect.

Having read the comment section on the Daily Mail article about the plane stunt, I am also less optimistic. Lots of people falling for the culture war distraction

Not that I've seen, it's based on my own experiences (I'm from Burnley) but that's how it feels to me across quite a wide spectrum.

I think there's a lot of support for the general black lives matter concept but not much for the specifics (anti-capitalist, disrupt the nuclear family, abolish the police, etc) of Black Lives Matter.

Support for the general thrust of black live matters requires a certain amount of recognition of white privilege. Whether you’re poor and white or rich and white, or doing okay and white, because that’s what the movement is trying to dismantle.
It’s not going to be easy or quick, poor working class white folk can feel hard done by, but they are as much a part of the problem as the rest of white society, because it’s easier to blame the BAME people in your neighbourhood/town/city than try to acknowledge your own racism/involvement.

The specifics you mention are pretty american, though I haven’t heard about “disrupting the nuclear family” and the disbanding the police line just muddies they water in terms of what “defunding The police” in the us actually means.

Most of the specifics in the uk are about recognising that the foundation of generational wealth in the uk is based on slavery and the empire/commonwealth which little Englanders love so much but isn’t such a great emblem for those people whose lands were taken. It’s also about making society look at and correct the racism which has made a level playing field (educationally, economically) impossible to implement, or be worth a damn. And that stating that you don’t see colour isn’t worth much at all and actively reinforces the current system..

A terrible case in France, another death by suffocation:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/23/suffocating-french-delivery-driver-cedric-chouviat-last-words-george-floyd-case

Not a black man, but as far as I understand racism in France (enlighten me if I'm wrong), people of recent North African or Arab descent are not treated far different from those of recent sub-Saharan African descent there.

I normally never hear about protests in advance these days as they mostly tend to be 'organised' via F*******, but as someone has gone to the trouble of putting stickers on bike stands in Stoke Newington, there will be a BLM gathering in Clissold Park on Sunday the 28th June. I've managed to forget the starting time, though, so will have to look at it again, hope it stays there for a while. Stickers on street furniture are really the only way apart from word of mouth that anyone should ever hear about protests. #leaveyourphoneathome