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This might be a completely honest post but it absolutely reeks of sealioning. However I'll take it as an honest post by someone who hasn't done any of the reading, yet.
I think there's a disproportionate amount of information/statistics
relating to the treatment/outcomes of BAME population compared to true
investigation and conversation around the "Why?"There isn't. There are decades worth of research and writing investigating the subject, and dozens of current podcasts covering the topic.
Why are BAME citizens 3.5 times more likely to be 'stopped and
searched'? Is it because the police force are inherently racist?Yes.
Why are they inherently racist?
Simplistically because the Police force have only ever been there to protect the white status quo.
What proportion of BAME and non-BAME stop and search subjects are
arrested/cautioned? Surely that's a much better indicator of
criminality, no?No. Unless you plan to stop and search literally every person in the country bias (racism) will skew the results.
Are there links between race and levels/types of crime? If so, let's
investigate what and why and do something about it.Yes. As above, it has been investigated. Poverty plays a much more significant factor in crime statistics, and poverty affects BAME populations significantly more than white because, you guess it, systemic racism. (See also gerrymandering, redlining, ghettoisation etc)
In short literally all of these questions are not new, they have been heavily discussed by a wealth of black researchers, educators, and journalists. You don't have to search very hard at all to find multiple sources that would dissect all of these in as much detail as you care to know.
Generally this thread is embarrassingly full of white hand wringing. I'm glad there's a lot of diversification in people's reading, and that we're all trying to get to become more educated and nuanced about the BLM movement but it means fuck all if we're not willing to act on it.
I read a very brief thing the other day about being an ally isn't good enough. It's not good enough to just go away and read and educate ourselves. We have to become accomplices, willing to walk the line, back up, and stand up for black people everywhere.
This means not asking a black person what you can do to help because that information is already out there. It means you will do the wrong the thing under good intentions and be checked for it. Learn when our voice is necessary, and learn when it's not. But don't feel good about yourselves because you've read two Zadie Smith novels, and Remi Eddo-Lodge.
This is as much to me as it is to every other white person on this forum.
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Bit of a patronising post there methinks?
Not everyone has apparently your depth of understanding or is as widely read on the subject...
Are you an expert on disability, gender, trauma etc etc as well? -
Generally this thread is embarrassingly full of white hand wringing.
Nah I disagree with this bit.
Don't be embarrassed people! Wring those hands! Gotta do it, get it out there if it makes you feel better, it's a human reaction, then move on and do more. -
Thanks for your interesting points and also @Tenderloin for your signpost towards some material.
As there perhaps appears to be some identification of the issues, reasons and impact, hopefully some to meaningful solutions and actions to help eradicate inequality can come as a result of this, historical and any subsequent movements. Is a significant issue the lack of BAME representation and decision makers within different organisations; business, sport, political, military, public services etc and if so would anyone favour legislation that ensures representation is more 'representative' and diverse?
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In the time it's taken me to respond to your message I can see that others have already said what I'm thinking but I felt that was very well put. I'm pretty sure my contribution so far at best has been simplistic but FWIW anything i put out on here I do so in the knowledge that it's open to criticism and will be part of my much needed self eduction. TBH I'm a painfully slow reader so I need to be prepared to put myself out there and talk to people. Hopefully that doesn't sound like I'm asking others on here to educate me rather than doing it myself.
Regarding my klaxon moment LFGSS T-shirt charity suggestion I was just thinking it would be good to show support through association but maybe I'm wrong on that. AFAIK there's charities out there on the front line dealing with this right now that need our support.
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Poverty plays a much more significant factor in crime statistics, and poverty affects BAME populations significantly more
this is very true. also true for fire statistics. But poverty is complex, so we use the Index of Multiple Deprivation amongst other datasets for targeting our prevention measures.
That ranks all Census LSOAs on the following factors and combines them all for an overall score.
Income
Employment
Education, Skills and Training
Disability
Crime
Barriers to Housing and Services Rank
Living Environment
johnnettles2
hoefla
Pasty_Spumante
jono84
ObiWomKenobi
Difficult to articulate my thoughts In a way that won't come across as naive/ignorant (perhaps I'm both), perhaps even offensive to some but essentially I think there's a disproportionate amount of information/statistics relating to the treatment/outcomes of BAME population compared to true investigation and conversation around the "Why?" Why are BAME citizens 3.5 times more likely to be 'stopped and searched'? Is it because the police force are inherently racist? Why are they inherently racist? What can be done be done about this 'root and branch'? What proportion of BAME and non-BAME stop and search subjects are arrested/cautioned? Surely that's a much better indicator of criminality, no? Are there links between race and levels/types of crime? If so, let's investigate what and why and do something about it. What about Social Media influences - who is saying what, what is the racial profile of their 'subscriber-ship' and what, in turn is the impact on their outcomes and behaviours? Why, and how can it be challenged?
Levels of racial inequality and inequality of all types are clear and shameful but making noise about it is only a tiny part of the solution to this terrible unfairness - change has to be developed inclusively and holistically as what is really changing of we force a non-BAME figurehead to act however the lack of diversity among the decision makers remains? Look at the influence of sports people; what are their backgrounds? Is there a disproportionate number of black footballers/sportspersons for example, answering "what would life be like if you weren't a sports-star?" with "I'd be dead or in prison" Is this representative of UK society and is there clear divisions based on race? If so, why? Should there be legislation that forces proportional representation of all protected characteristics across all areas such as political powers, sporting bodies etc? In isolation, did the South African Rugby Union protocol to force teams to have X number of black players lead to a greater number of black players and coaches, beyond the 'at least' number to be represented within the sport both as players and coaches? If so, was the initial controversy linked to positive discrimination deemed worth it as it's led to much greater genuine inclusivity?