Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

But immediate total lockdown at an early enough stage to really prevent much spread would have seen as alarmist.

I can only assume they have appointed Siobhan Sharpe as comms director.

Ps - sorry for the middle of the road, centrist-dad reference.

Good point.

Source for the thousands a week? Or is that world-wide, not just UK? The BBC wrote an article about avoidable deaths due to people not going to hospital/other reasons, their source said it was too early to call an exact figure.

Sure there is no "perfect" solution, but mass test/trace is recommended and the UK is not there yet.

So what do we do until test/trace is in place? How good does that have to be before we ease lockdown? If we don't have an exact number of deaths and long-term impairment of health and wellbeing caused by lockdown, what would be a reasonable assumption and how do we weigh that up against the direct harm caused by the virus?

They already dealt with SARS, MURS and bird flu and so have experience in this kind of thing. They also have an large number of elderly, more so in rural areas so are very aware of that. Of course, until a vaccine comes along then they’re always at risk.

Also distilleries are still making whisky which is clearly nonessential.

Pretty essential in my household but many distilleries have also switched to making sanitisers and cleaning stuff for hospitals. You also don't have many staff running them or in proximity to each other.

Don't see businesses moving south of the border in the name of a few extra weeks of shutdown but maybe you know something I don't. Likewise, footing the furlough bill: don't think Johnson said that was ending today? I think the real farce is rUK leaders finding out what Johnson's 'plans' are on the T.V-Sturgeon published a detailed proposal to start discussions for how coming out of lockdown could be done weeks ago that was typically ignored by Westminster. In the absence of any credible alternatives coming from Johnson or any consensus I think it's right to err on the side of caution when other countries with stricter lockdowns are easing and seeing infection rates jump again.

The fact that Sturgeon's doing a live unscripted update/q&a every day, and remaining accountable to the press, is to her credit too.

Edit. Just searched out if interest and Dufftown's hospital has 20 beds. Seems reasonable not to encourage someone to travel from Hungary/London/wherever and pitch up expecting to work when there's not even any checks at airports and quarantine measures are potentially going to be introduced at the end of the month too. Again, I understand people's frustrations but the bigger picture isn't every country in EU going back to work: England is very much an outlier in its current attitudes.

Seriously, who should be flying right now anyway? What part of “essential travel only” doesn’t he understand?

Distilleries and breweries are also likely to be some of the most hygienic places around at the minute. They just don't work if they're not.

how many distilleries are making products?

I also know distilleries more intimate than 99% of the world and can assure you you work intimately close with regular staff as well as outside support workers.

You’ve clearly never been in a working distillery. Ever seen a rat the size of a spaniel in a working grain store? I have named them

Second point is Sturgeon has said Scotland’s “R” number is thought be above one. How can she not know that?

No, I haven't. Maybe distilleries are different then. But breweries seem to be 95% cleaning, 5% brewing.

Also distilleries are still making whisky which is clearly nonessential. Some construction sites are still open. It’s all a fucking farce.

There isn't, and has never been, a shut down of non-essential businesses. Only hospitality and some retail have been officially closed down.

But immediate total lockdown at an early enough stage to really prevent much spread would have seen as alarmist.

This shower of shit choosing optics over competence every single time is one of the reasons we're so angry at them.

And now they've also completely failed at the optics parts I don't know what the point of them is.

19 of them according to this, producing 50million bottles of sanitizer for the NHS. https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/18362230.scottish-distillers-produce-50-million-litres-hand-sanitiser-nhs/&ved=2ahUKEwj3l-rt06vpAhWailwKHRtBBs0QFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw02JirL0teyt5nk65qhUbCf

It's up to businesses themselves to decide if they can operate safely-be that through PPE or distancing. Rural communities where most distilleries are also won't be as reliant on public transport for workers which is another major factor.

the Carling factory is still churning out lager with adjustments to it's processes anyway so I'm not sure why you're holding up the whisky industry as a bad example? https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/alcohol/coronavirus-molson-coors-scales-down-uk-operations-and-cuts-range/603968.article

I don't think it's Sturgeon sitting calculating the R number, do you?

If you search on Google there's hotpots in Greenock where R is 1.7.

Again, I think your criticism would be better directed at Johnson than someone actually attempting to operate by the scientific consensus that's available.

Can't be criticised on knowledge of the R number if you ignore it. Big brain tactics from Johnson.

Johnson's love for writing for the press is really a treasure trove, isn't it?

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Every week with a reduced number of flights weakens the shaky justification for a 3rd Runway at Heathrow. The entire air travel business, which can never be Carbon Neutral needs to reassess its likelihood of survival based upon much reduced passenger numbers for several years.

You’d hope so, yeah. But business!!!!!! Growth!!!!!!!

But immediate total lockdown at an early enough stage to really prevent much spread would have seen as alarmist.

This shower of shit choosing optics over competence every single time is one of the reasons we're so angry at them.

But there have been lots of potential pandemics. If the response to the first slightest sign of a potential pandemic was instant lockdown that would be a bad policy. They didn't choose optics over action, they made a difficult call that everyone is now criticising in hindsight.

I admit it seems unlikely, but Vietnam isn’t China where they routinely lie about things like this. I’m more inclined to believe them.

Also, I really wasn’t. I was pointing out two extremes. Germany is being pretty tight on controls which is why they have a relatively low death rate. We have had low controls and next to no enforcement of them, which is why we’re in the shit.

coming from the man whos had 6 children...

So when China, South Korea etc, who all have much greater experience in these matters than us, started to clamp down hard, our government faffed about and didn’t implement restrictions or even testing until weeks afterwards, you were happy with that? It wasn’t a difficult decision, it should have been a tough but necessary decision, but Johnson, being a libertarian conservative (which is fucked up in itself) didn’t have the balls to take the necessary steps. Which is we are where we are now.

If the world is to learn anything from this mess it’s that we need a worldwide immediate response to even the slightest sign of a pandemic in the future.

To be fair, this is a cabinet selected for its willingness to dismiss and denigrate any and all expertise that doesn't suit the party narrative of the day. Johnson boasting about handshakes and proclaiming the UK would remain open for business when Italy was being engulfed is redolent of his contempt for the science, and MPs have been lobbying for controlling arrivals to the UK and implementation of quarantine measures for months now.