Owning your own home

Not if they go for a box gutter.

Delux shed :)

I imagine it'll be like it is now, with the fall to front and back not to the side. If it does fall to my side however, I'll collect the rainwater.

On a serious note you should consult a party wall specialist. Not to cause trouble or anything like that but it has the potential to make life easier for both you and your neighbour in the short term if the process is handled formally. Also it could resolve future problems for either you or your neighbour in the future, if one of you sells and the new neighbour decides the boundary line is not right it could be a real arse ache for the one of you still living there.

This, I would insist on keeping a fence between you and them... Keep the fence line on the boundary then they can build their shed wherever the fuck they like...

I think your being far too nice a neighbour! 🙃

The original location of the legal boundary will be determined by the conveyance which originally divided your land from the adjoining land. In a lot of cases though, espcially with older houses, that original conveyance will no longer be available.

The Land Registry plans are useless for determining boundaries, thanks to the general boundaries rule. Basically, don't even bother trying to use Land Registry plans to establish where the boundary is.

If the fence dividing the properties has been in the same location for a long period of time, then it will have become the legal boundary through adverse possession or on the basis of an implied boundary agreement. If the fence has been there for a long time, and everyone's treated it as the boundary, then it is the boundary.

If your neighbour wants to build a wall straddling the boundary line, then they have to serve a notice under s. 1(2) of the Party Wal etc Act 1996 (and yes, the real title of the Act includes the word 'etc'). You have two options:

1. You can agree to it under s. 1(3), in which case the wall can straddle the legal boundary, and you share the costs of maintaining it depending on the extent to which you use it; or
   
2. You object, and the wall has to be built on their side of the boundary, which in this case probably means on their side of the fence.
   
   

If they want to build the wall so the outside face (from their property) is on the boundary line (so in line with the fence) they have to serve a section 1(5) notice. However, they have to compensate you (under section 1(7)) for any loss or damage you suffer as a result.

Personally, I'd insist on it being done properly and having proper 1996 Act notices being served, unless they want to build the new shed entirely on their land. It's a bit of a PITA, and it can get expensive for them, but it's not as much of a PITA and nowhere near as expensive as a full-blown boundary dispute. And I've known full-blown boundary disputes kick off over far less.

Salutary tale: I was involved not that long ago in a boundary dispute case, where the combined legal costs ended up being over quarter of a million, because my client resurfaced a shared driveway. He won, but it still ended up costing him £50k and 2 years of aggro.

Salutary tale: ...over quarter of a million

Crikey!

1. You can agree to it under s. 1(3), in which case the wall can straddle the legal boundary, and you share the costs of maintaining it depending on the extent to which you use it; or
   
2. You object, and the wall has to be built on their side of the boundary, which in this case probably means on their side of the fence.
   

1. Fuck that
   
2. Fucking right!
   

How do you determine who a boundary fence belongs to and who should pay to fix it?

New fence. The shed / mansion/cheap extension for Hugo to turbo train and Jocasta to do her consulting work in can go on their side of the fence.

^^ agree suggest it would be far easier and less risky for them to build up to the existing fence.

We're planning to build a garage very soon, I wouldn't dream of asking my neighbours if my new garage wall could be their new boundary... It's just a piss take... IMVHO, obvs...

Or maybe I should?!?

If the fence dividing the properties has been in the same location for a long period of time, then it will have become the legal boundary through adverse possession or on the basis of an implied boundary agreement. If the fence has been there for a long time, and everyone's treated it as the boundary, then it is the boundary.

This is my concern if the fence becomes their wall, then the implied boundary may be the face not the centre of the wall. As it is I'm not sure whether the fence is on my side, their side or down the line. The arrangement of fenceposts at the far end would suggest the fence is on my side, but the dog-leg at the brick pier near the house would suggest it's centred or even on their side.

I will ask them to keep the fence. PWetcA Section 1(5) is if the face of their wall is at the boundary which if the fence is centred would still affect (replace) the fence. But if they build as close as they can up to, but without affecting the fence, then presumably no notice is required? I will also ask that any new footings stay on their side.

If no notices etc required, should we still agree something in writing, or if it's all on their side then that's that? I will ask about height as well (max 2.5m without planning permission).

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

I have a kitchen cupboard like the excellent drawing below (red bits are doors, the scale may be slighlty off). Stuff gets lost at the back of it as it's pretty awkward to get to. Any suggestions on the best way to make full use of the cupboard space easily. Cheers

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This is my concern if the fence becomes their wall, then the implied boundary may be the face not the centre of the wall. As it is I'm not sure whether the fence is on my side, their side or down the line. The arrangement of fenceposts at the far end would suggest the fence is on my side, but the dog-leg at the brick pier near the house would suggest it's centred or even on their side.

I think a judge would be unlikely to come to that conclusion, but in the absence of an express agreement it's possible. If you want to avoid risk, agree it, write it down, and keep the document.

I will ask them to keep the fence. PWetcA Section 1(5) is if the face of their wall is at the boundary which if the fence is centred would still affect (replace) the fence. But if they build as close as they can up to, but without affecting the fence, then presumably no notice is required? I will also ask that any new footings stay on their side.

Yes. Section 1(5) would only apply if the wall just touches the boundary. If it's 6" inside the boundary line, then it doesn't and no notices would be necessary as long as they don't need to build foundations on your land.

If no notices etc required, should we still agree something in writing, or if it's all on their side then that's that? I will ask about height as well (max 2.5m without planning permission).

If it's all on their side then there's not really much to agree. It's their land, they can build a shed on it. Unless doing so would constitute an actionable nuisance, a substantial interference with an easement or breach an enforceable restrictive covenant, of course. Which it doesn't sound like it would in this case.

How do you determine who a boundary fence belongs to and who should pay to fix it?

If you're very, very lucky and you have access to the original conveyance/transfer of your property, it might say who has responsibility for party structures or the plan might have 'T' marks on the boundaries showing who is responsible for replacing it.

If you don't, and the fence is supported by posts or struts on only side (rather than posts with panels slotted into them), there is a presumption that it belongs to the owner on the side with the posts on it.

The best way to determine who owns the fence is to sue you next door neighbour, spend bazillions of pound on lawyers, and then at the end of that process you will know for sure. The alternative, which I can't recommend, is to wait until it needs replacing, then have a polite chat with the neighbour and agree to split the costs 50/50.

Something like this? https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/swing-out-corner-storage-classic-silver-linear-wire-baskets-vauth-sagel-vs-cor-fold/000000a20001c74000040023/

If only I knew who the neighbour was... It's a house converted into 3 flats and I've only rarely seen anyone living there.

Theres lots on the market but they all have issues and all come out with more cons on a pro/con chart. This is why there is no single market leading solution that everyone buys, and why I hate corner cabinets. Your two solutions are:

1. Have 2 cabinets either side of the corner with a lot of wasted space.
   
2. Do a little research into the many ways of overcoming this problem and buy the one that offends you or your wallet the least.
   

You can get that info from land registry for a few quid.

We have a pair of spinning discs with sauce pans on one side and a pully-outy thing with tupperwear and misc crap on the other side.

The spinning disc works well. The pully-outy thing would be better with more sturdy bits as the tupperwear and misc crap still gets lost sometimes.

Are these unto this last shelves and cupboard? Looking at them for my on the cheap kitchen refurb. How many shelves are in the cupboard?
This is my favourite kitchen on the thread

Thanks! I'm struggling to find which post you replied to though! If it was my tiny kitchen in my last place it was white and Untothislast, great shelves but hell to fit on not very flat plasterboard. Think the cupboard was a 80x60 3 shelves ikea base unit.

the line of junction notices don't really give you the option to appoint a surveyor at their cost, in the same way a party structure notice (or adjacent excavation notice) does, so you'd be paying their fees.

you can consent or not - as dan says, below. watch costs, as it you consent, they may try and attribute some costs to you, as they are technically providing the boundary fence.

they can put the foundation of the wall on your land, as long as it is not a 'special foundation' (ie - reinforced concrete). there is nothing in the act that allows them to do that - they need your permission.

happy to discuss via pm.