Car appreciation... the aesthetics, the engineering, etc

I think Chris Bangle changed car design at a fairly fundamental level, simple elegant shapes lost out to complex creases and detail.

I think older cars look better, modern things all look like identical balls of jelly to me, there's just nothing defined about them.
Maestro still looks like a shitbox though! Just an angular Allegro isn't it?

Love the Skoda background.

Is that a ledbury maestro?

I don't think it's just Chris Bangle but he certainly shares a large portion of the blame. Modern safety standards mean that modern cars all have to share pretty similar dimensions in order to meet crash safety standards etc. Looking at the picture of that meastro again the amount of glass compared to the low waistline is something that you wouldn't see these days on a similarly sized car.

Is it also the styled by computer to get the right crash and drag coef means we just get bland euro boxes that look the same or is it that less car manufacturers and similar platforms mean similar looking cars.

just nothing defined about them

There is, but the definition comes from pointless creases in the bodywork that add to manufacturing and repair costs.

Maestro still looks like a shitbox though!

It does! but I still think it looks better than any equivalent modern car. I was surprised when I saw it because I wasn't really concentrating and said to myself "that's a really nice looking car." Then realised it was a meastro which triggered a mini existential crisis.

I have no idea.

Was my attempt at discussion, don't know myself.

There does seem to a resurgence of retro themed vehicles eg fiat 500.

Don't forget marketing. Every car must be sporty, aggressive, emotive blah blah blah. Function was sorted out decades ago so now it's just adding styling. Sucks really.

I'd like to see a modern car designed to look good with large glass area, smaller wheels and no needless creases. Not going to happen though.

Mint VW there, love the blue. I was a passenger in my old man's orange estate version that was literally killed in the face in a head on with a Volvo 244 in a single lane country road in the early 80's, probably the last thing you want to meet coming the other way on such a road.

Spotted a rat 58 Chevy Biscayne today, wouldn't fancy crashing head on into this either.

And saw another lovely old GT6 Mk3 Triumph today.

Don't forget marketing. Every car must be sporty, aggressive, emotive blah blah blah. Function was sorted out decades ago so now it's just adding styling. Sucks really.

I'd like to see a modern car designed to look good with large glass area, smaller wheels and no needless creases. Not going to happen though.

Large glass area is hard to achieve with modern crash requirements combined with aerodynamic driven fuel economy, but hard doesn't mean impossible.

The air-cooled engine had to go from the 911 due to emissions, but the very upright windscreen of the 993 (which was essentially the same shape as every 911 up to then) had to go due to what it did to airflow - the 996 is much more steeply raked backward, and much slipperier as a result.

I think wheel size might be generational, I think of 18's as big, 19's as style over substance, and 20+ as belonging on a bus, but of course this is rolling on 20's:

But then I'm old, the youth of today might think that 20" wheels are small, and that Bangles flame surfacing concept is essential for a cars looks.

Personally I think that the narrow body, classic 911 shell is far nicer than the Singer version for e.g.

vs.

Although I have a huge amount of respect for the sheer amount of work that goes into a Singer, the result is not what I'd ask for.

Agreed. A narrow body Singer would be superb!

I've loved this one owned by Achim Anscheidt at Bugatti since I first saw it. A perfect example of a modified 911.

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https://www.instagram.com/p/B-7YIcID77N/?igshid=nyc4qmbomgst
🤔🤔🤔

Want.

Can’t decide if I love it or shun it

Am trying to work out if it is a lifted 126 or a beetle chasis with a 126 shell.

EDIT:reg check says beetle

new passat estate (facelift 'r line' with 240ps diesel and a dsg gearbox sounded useful and not fully boring), back seats didn't even fold flat!

Belated reply, but are you sure? Pretty certain my mate's B7 did, you need to flip the passenger seats up first tho.

Still on the whole the Germans are fucking aweful when it comes to functional storage in cars. (Cue people posting some outlier examples that prove, rather than disprove my point).

One of my cars has moderately capacious bins in the doors, and then a small storage compartment in the elbow rest that can fit some mints. That's it. Oh - and the passenger seat has an elasticated pocket on the back of it.

Wheel size IMO are also related to brakes, as now everybody is trying to produce more powerful car (despite the fact that we are all limited in speed on roads, and that having a 60hp car would be plenty enough to do that), they need to have adequate brakes I believe so that can also explain the enlargement of wheels

Whilst that's true I suspect the bigger wheels are largely driven by looks. With that said I can't fit my spare wheel over the new brakes so have had to go to a can of tyre ooze and a compressor.

Wheel size is also driven by size of the car. Looking at the classic narrow body 911 to the 2020 version. The scale is very different so the 20's help make the car look in proportion.

The 2020 car is also vastly faster than the old so there is some justification for a larger wheel and tyre and a larger, stronger structure.

Of course we could construct small, light and large glass area cars that are structurally very strong. But the cost would be higher. And while there's the scourge of high and heavy SUVs then low waistlines on cars aren't that safe, no matter the construction. It's sad, my daughter loves my 306 because she can see out of it. The Audi is like a (very safe) cocoon. If you could merge the two, safety and visibility then that's the ideal. For me anyway.

If I built my 2001 306 out of high strength steels, some composites and replaced the driveline with something modern it would be all the car you need for 90% of the time. 15" wheels and 195/55 tyres and all.

Think I'm ranting...

I think you've just described the Singer 306...

I'd be into that...