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Yeah, separating (electrically and spatially) your DAC and analog amplification from RF generators is a good idea in general.
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OK, good to know. On your point about digital sources, and I'm not being in any way pugilistic about this, just want to know your take on it, isn't the difference between digital sources all about RF separation? E.g a streamer which has only 1 job to do vs a laptop which has a bunch of other processes generating noise. And if that's of benefit then something like a rPi steamer with a wall brick outputting directly from its own USB out vs a rPi with an isolated output board and low-noise power supply should give better SQ?
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I've just started with an NUC7i5 running Roon ROCK having been running Roon on a computer. Your example would be different a bit different as the laptop is still running an operating system and Roon runs on top of that. I don't use any upsampling but I do run convolution filters and the there are a lot of individual room speakers.
I've enjoyed the freeing up of resources on my main computer and the Roon remotes controlling the whole house have been a bit more responsive with Roon running on a separate computer.
If you can spring for an NUC I would recommend that, otherwise definitely try the laptop. I have a second system which runs off a laptop and that seems pretty stable although it's only running one endpoint.
Just don't lose sight of the fact that most RF interference is at levels so low it really doesn't factor in the enjoyment of almost any source. Any audio transmitted via ethernet or wifi should be free of added rf interference though.
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I think the various terms are often mixed up / confused in the marketing material of these audiophile components. For me interference is a separate issue to the quality. Especially when it’s something that can be luck of the draw to do with the way your house is wired or interplay between components. It’s also nothing to do with the digital signal itself and the fact it is transmitted via USB ports to eventually show up in the analog signal is a flaw of the standard (transmitters/receivers not isolated electrically) and it can be blocked before the analog stage without making any difference to the source signal at all.
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If you measure the difference between batteries and a fairly normal power supply in a phono amp which is very sensitive to these issues you will find very little difference, maybe a few db at something like -128db. It's really theoretical.
On the other hand if you have 2 items plugged into different power supplies and connecting them together by USB gives you a ground loop then it's more likely to be affecting normal levels of music. It's also common for cheap USB devices to pick up on rf noise from the computer.
I would recommend you measure different problem noises and decide what you can live with.
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Cool, thanks for this. I have been looking at NUCs but I feel that I would probably always want the Roon Nucleus as a total fit and forget optimised solution, so I'll perhaps go for that once I've given the laptop thing a go.
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Thanks for the explanation. I'll digest that for a while, these things take a lot of time for me!
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Of course I had considered the Nucleus, reading the white paper they published there is very little difference between the Nucleus and an NUC running ROCK. The Nucleus has a few things disabled, direct audio output and wifi as an example. There's a chance I might want to use my NUC as a portable Roon setup in the future so Wifi for control and a direct audio output appealed to me. The Nucleus is based on either an early series i3 or i7 for the Nucleus + so they are pretty expensive options although the turnkey approach is appealing of course.
Probably represented better value before the wider availability of second hand NUC's and a choice of fanless cases. I've not put it in a fanless case yet but I will at some point.
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most music is produced on a Mac
Define "produced". And probably "most" and "music" while you're at it 🙂
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I'm getting a "pop" from my speakers once in awhile - receiver was recently serviced, speakers as well. Source doesn't seem to make any difference.
Bad connection somewhere? -
As far as I'm aware, Alfred Lion didn't have a Mac.
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Alfred Lion didn't have a Mac
If he did, it can only have been for the last couple of years of his life 🙂
Perhaps I should also have specified in my response to @freddo that it depends on what the meaning of is is
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Define "produced". And probably "most" and "music" while you're at it 🙂
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Irrelevant when you can hear the difference between competing 32/64 bit fp audio engines.
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On a slightly less wtf note, my new neighbour claims to have helped design/build this https://www.stereophile.com/turntables/258/index.html
Sadly he doesn’t have one! -
After a pretty solid day and a half I’ve got 120CDs ripped. Jesus this is going to be a long old do. I’ve exhausted my Roon trial so I’ve had a go at Audirvana. Seems alright. Rips definitely sound a bit more sparkling and dynamic vs Tidal streams as I can play them back to back on this. Best thing is being reminded of a heap of albums I’d forgotten about.
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I mean, most music is produced on a Mac mini / iMac, so... 🤷🏽
Unsure where you have got this info from.
Ableton on a MacBook Pro is good for a DIY mobile setup. But most studios I know use Pro Tools on Windows workstations racked in another room along with a tonne of storage and a shedload of audio interfaces.
And most music does come from studios.
Why not use a Mac mini or laptop? Word clocks and low noise circuitry, speed and latency, software and driver range (not just the DAW but all the things that drive the audio interfaces).
You can even look up deadmaus on twitch and see him work, there's no Mac mini in sight, or a Mac... It's racks of Windows machines.
Maybe you mean something else by produced, but most music you hear is produced on racks of Windows machines.
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No idea how you are managing 120 a day. Are you ripping securely with dbpoweramp. I'm trying to rip a Mozart box set with 25 discs in and I've had 3 that won't rip securely which slows the process massively.
I guess you don't miss the extra metadata stuff that Roon does. I used to run Amarra as an iTunes plugin before Roon came along. I liked the difference it made. Sometimes it's enough that the software communicates more directly with the sound card and misses out the os mixer.
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Audiophiles hifi appreciation thread old and new
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@coppiThat
@Dramatic_Hammer that makes me hesitant to put the question I came here to ask...
Tl;dr: Can I use a cheap crappy laptop to run Roon Core as long as its not connected directly to the system?
If you’ve ever run Roon Core on a laptop you’ll know it seems to muller resources and gets really hot, especially when you start chucking DSP and upsampling at it. If you’re using the same machine as the endpoint and plugging directly into your system then I get how all that noise generated messes with the signal. If you use a separate endpoint like a stand-alone streamer which is receiving the Roon data over WiFi, then it won’t matter that the Roon Core is running flat out, other than fan noise from the computer which can be put out of the way right?
I will be able to actually test this and see if there’s any audible difference, but not for a while so it’s all a bit abstract.