Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Even unpaid volunteer work?

Banks don't need the bailout this time so won't be dothing their cap to beg for more from the taxpayer. They are being asked to defer interest and give payment holidays etc whilst getting access to cheap wholesale money from the central banks around the world including taking short term debt of balance sheets to pump more liquidity into the economy. These efforts are aimed at increasing the money supply not protecting banks.

After the 2008 bailouts the banks increased the amount of capital they hold and BoE recently said that the banks under their supervision have sufficient capital buffer to withstand this global recession. They even cancelled the stress test that was supposed to be happening about now. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2020/march/boe-announces-supervisory-and-prudential-policy-measures-to-address-the-challenges-of-covid-19

Yes, and also let's remember that there are still many many people going to work in crowded tube trains etc. Now of course a lot of those are indeed 'essential workers', but I'm fairly sure quite a few are not. See this article for example:

The Tube driver said: "We were all a bit surprised that so many people
would be allowed to travel. We were expecting rush hour to be largely
un-impacted and that has turned out to be the case.

"There's very little difference in the numbers around rush hour. We're
still seeing the builders in the 'Hi Vis' jackets and paint on the
trousers.

"We want to be playing our part to keep the country moving, but
building a new office space for whoever isn't really what we want to
be doing. But we know that mixed into that crowd are people who need
to be there."

... and I can definitely confirm that, around here building seems to be going on as before - as just one example, we can see one of the Thames 'super sewer' building places from the staircase and while they might not be going at 100%, there are still workers on site, lorries coming and going, cranes moving. This is not something you can blame on the individual builders, they need the money too, but you can blame companies. And I'm sure there's quite a few more examples of not-really-all-that-essential work going on.

I'm fairly sure the risk of spreading the infection in a packed tube train, or even just inside a station, is orders of magnitude higher than when people go out for a walk or a run or whatever.

But agriculture and food processing industry want a stable supply of workers, not people they will train and then leave as soon as their old jobs reopen leaving the farmers back in the same position

@DerDieDas @MattG87
Being furloughed means you are still an employee, just not attending work but still being paid (up to statutory limits)
Theoretically you can take up a new job, but you may have contractual obligations to have approval from your current employer, and possibly not during a time you would normally work.
It's a grey area as we have never had furloughing before (in practical terms)

Volunteering would possibly be the same criteria, but your boss is more likely to be happy with you working for free at the local food bank, than working for a rival company and getting paid twice (effectively) for the same time.

(My understanding is not expert level)

@snottyotter @MattG87

I misread mud not undertake work for current employer as must not undertake work.

Anecdotal but already been a few posts over on reddit of people saying they have been furloughed but their companies are still asking them to do work, hope that gets shut down quickly as it's just abuse of the system otherwise

Growth can be measured at a macro level by global GDP

https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/

You mean the site with this graph showing year on year global GDP growth? Perhaps you could explain how this shows the last 12 years as 'the bullish 12 years of growth ever.'

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Anyone else applied for farm work? There's a big drive to recruit amid the travel restrictions from countries where workers usually come from.

I really want to do something useful and outdoors and be allowed to travel. I'm concerned that the accomodation ( which in most cases you pay for out of your wages) will be so shit as to make the experience pretty miserable, no privacy, no space etc.

I literally can not be bothered with you. Carry on.

I can’t speak for the agriculture and food processing industry (obviously) but several producers I know have appealed to furloughed locals and have had a good reaction. Not sure if numbers will be quite enough. It must be relatively messy to organise.

They’d usually rely on mostly European (many Romanian) pickers I think.

So this lockdown may be until October.

How much shorter could it have been if the government had gotten off its fat Etonian arse sooner and banned events/closed borders etc?

By being so slow they've guaranteed it's going to last longer and cost more. That good ol' Tory "prudence" again...

The curve would have been flatter, fat-tailed and later, with more time to prepare but perhaps less panic (less motivation for action?) and maybe less death. So longer?

Probably.

It’s not even clear we’d have got more PPE as demand is still going to be climbing whilst the US freaks out.

It isn't only 'essential workers' that should be on public transport though. It's also anyone who can't work from home in the majority of businesses that aren't shut down.
There also seems to be a widespread assumption that the only 'essential workers' are NHS staff when plenty of hi vis jacket roles are equally essential.

Pity. I'd be genuinely interested to know your answer.

It's also anyone who can't work from home in the majority of businesses that aren't shut down.

OK but did I misunderstand that the idea was for non-essential businesses that can't do wfh to shut down for the time being? Precisely to avoid having lots of people out and about that aren't really strictly necessary right now?

See responses in this thread a mere 20 days ago:

https://www.lfgss.com/comments/15144620/

A major government mistake, imo, was not cautioning heavily against leisure travel before the February half term.

I'm thankful this thread was well ahead of government advice as it meant I socially distanced from my parents much sooner than was advised.

Yes. It's only Retail, Hospitality and Leisure that are shut down. Working in other people's homes (other than maintenance/repairs) is also out.

Wait, why are we talking about 'essential' and 'key' workers / businesses at all then? It's more of a specific reduction of any business with direct people contact, everything else just goes ahead as usual. Reading what people are saying online e.g. on reddit, it also does not seem many businesses are taking a lot of precautions with regards to social distancing at work, disinfectants etc....

Every time I think about the testing situation it makes my head hurt - why, when an antibody test would enable those people who test positive for them to go back to a close to normal way of life, are we not throwing massive resource at this? For e.g. the 25% of the NHS that are having to self isolate are crying out for this, paired with an active infection test.

It seems like we are shooting ourselves in the foot every day that we don't roll out a decent testing program.

wow, new advice from Ireland, what happened to every sperm is sacred?
https://www.sexualwellbeing.ie/sexual-health/sex-and-coronavirus/

Masturbation will not spread coronavirus
Make sure to disinfect keyboards and touch screens
Use condoms and dental dams to reduce contact with saliva or faeces, especially during oral or anal sex and avoid rimming

Very interesting... not sure how it'll work when the reason folks are off is 'cos there's no income incoming. My employer seemingly has zilch reserves so there's no magic money tree to pick up their contribution from if the governments % decreases.

If the sites reopen then there'll be both income incoming & work to be done so staff won't be furloughed anyway.

not during a time you would normally work

This is strongly emphasised in the furlough info I got. It may favour part time staff as they can potentially more easily take on other paid work in their non-usual working time.