General Election 2019

May's deal not passing has hurt Labour more than it has hurt the ERG.

Smartest move would have been for the Labour leadership to give a tacit nod to Labour MPs in leave seats to vote for the deal.

I think that's probably true, but it's because they chose election over referendum.

About the BBC and media bias...

... this (from a few weeks back) was really good, with the editor of Tribune who was ace.

He makes the point that the BBC tries to sit in the middle-ground of Westminster politics not the middle ground of the country. When it does diverge from centralised politics, rather than do it's own quality polling it defaults to the Overton window set by News UK (Murdoch) and the Daily Mail Group (who in combination own most of the papers).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WJGYTVImg&feature=youtu.be

#derail

A lot of bile is being wasted on questioning why Labour lost. The fact is that the Tories won and we should reflect on what they did to win and then seek to replicate it.

1. A leader with a brand. Yes we might not like it but it was recognisable and people did.

2. Eliminate internal opposition and brook no disloyalty.

3. Simplify the message. Get Brexit Done. No detail in the manifesto. Nothing to challenge.

4. Attack the other side. Scatter lies all over the shop so that the other side spends all its time answering those lies and not in getting its message out.

Now the challenge is to see how that can be replicated from a left perspective.

In the first instance, the next two years must be spent focusing locally and listening. And then we strike.

I agree with that but the harm that would be occasioned by adopting 4 should not be taken lightly - by doing the same, they'd lose the moral high ground.

It must be possible without the lies.

If the ERG had voted for it then it would have passed. Blaming the opposition for not passing a Tory bill for them puts the onus on the wrong group.

How's that going for you?

I think the Tories will help, by dint of being Tories - classing food from food banks as a taxable benefit, and then deducting the resultant income from Universal Credit payments and other top wheezes.

How's that going for you?

Are you trying an American accent?

I think at this point the moral high ground can wait until they win an election.

Actually it was a fake english accent for American consumption à la Sebastian Gorka. Everything is for sale now.

Ok ta. It's a bit wordy, does it mean an 8 day working week or something as bad?

The Tories are so fucking awful that I don't think there are many lies the left could come up with that could possibly make them look worse than the things they already say and do. They haven't really felt the need to answer to any of that, either.

Largely because accusations of islamaphobia and anti-semitism are seen as positive attributes by their base.

Rewriting history there. May's deal was shit, very shit. Johnson's is worse, but there were windows of opportunity for remain to get their act together and block both of them. They failed, but that hindsight doesn't mean voting for May's deal was the right choice at the time.

See also "poor people burn to death because they're too stupid to live" (Rees-Mogg J. & Bridgen A., 2019), "why don't we just euthanise the ghastly povvos on Benefits Street?" (O'Brien, F. 2014, candidate supported by the Conservative party in 2019), "maybe if all those slags would just keep their legs shut they'd stop getting so raped" (Conrad, N., 2014, candidate supported by the Conservative party in 2019), "Why don't we just doctor that video of Keir Starmer so it looks like he's shit and we're great? Ooh, and then we can change our Twitter handle to FactCheckUK!" (Some chucklefuck in CCHQ Social Media Team, 2019).

&c.

If you are morally constrained to tell the truth, how do you defeat someone in the court of public opinion to whom the truth is both optional and malleable?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily have any moral problems about subvertising and the like. It's just that if your antagonist is made of teflon, how do you make anything stick? All the shit just slides right off 'em.

They can just tell this guy he's not to go on the telly for a couple of weeks, wait until the furore over that thing has died down before quietly reinstating the person who blew it all up in the first place, have the other one go and hide in a fucking fridge instead of answering interview questions. They don't seem to need to answer to anything, no matter how outrageous.

At this point I'm starting to that think Boris Johnson could literally stamp a badger to death on the steps of 10 Downing Street, and it'd barely make the third column headline on page 94 of the morning newspapers.

I'm starting to that think Boris Johnson could literally stamp a badger to death on the steps of 10 Downing Street

"Boris yeah I think he's a good bloke...that thing with the badger yeah that wasn't great but the badger asked for it... and yeah you can't trust him but he's a good bloke. I'm voting Conservative. And so is the rest of our Sett."

Badgers are half black, no one would care.

I think you have to pick a small number of issues that everyone cares about (NHS, housing, employment maybe) and relentlessly hammer the opposition on their record on these things, at a local, regional and national level. And don't allow the opposition to blame their own failings on for e.g. immigrants.

Significant factor that no one's mentioned yet is weaponising the internet. There is still barely any oversight. It's been several years since Cambridge Analytica and Labour have not learned a single thing.

Yeah, agree with that. I think the Tories will help, there - Facebook might tell you that it's immigrants, but if your NHS hospital is closed and replaced with Aetna Grimsby medical facility (no free parking) then physical reality can anchor your message.

Bit saddened that 'lets start a race to the bottom' is being touted as the best tactic. Also saddened that it's probably true

What else can you do? It needs to be regulated and the Tories won't do it while it works for them. Taking the high road clearly doesn't work and hasn't since, I don't know, the financial crash?

Who is saying that?