General Election 2019

People vote for an offering. If you can’t explain it to any & every person in 10s over the phone, then it’s too complicated.

[then filter with some learned-behaviour (prejudice) and fake news and you have people’s polled views]

It’s just like selling biscuits 🍪

And appearing to be unified behind the leader would be good too.

Labour solidarity = Tom Watson giving it a rest for the 5 weeks before the election so we all forget what a cnut he’s been :-/

https://twitter.com/financialtimes/status/1205079917639225345

Just yesterday’s update feed. My mistake.

So if the choice is between the
1:"vote for the face punching party" or the
2:"Maybe we need a hug party, shall we talk about it? Or a punch with a soft glove? We have options..." party means we all get to get punched in face ;)

I think Labour genuinely tried with the NHS papers, but it seems the "definitely not exagerating and lying" party supporters got all upset about the lack of nuance.

The oven ready Brexit is also pure bull, but then it is easy to explain. And a lie.

Hopefully Labour learns, but they have standards to keep too. The current Tories don't have that problem.

It seems though that the Brexit fudging hurt them less than the leader. So perhaps the solution is then quite easy... popular leader, trim the messaging, hope the Tories fuck up.

By then it may be too late though to turn around and make up with the EU, if a Brexit that benefits just the USA is pushed through, cha...

I am no fan of Poly Toynbee
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-manifesto-antisemitism-brexit
typically she lays all the blame on Corbyn and leadership incompetence. I do, however, agree that Corbyn's failure to lead during the 2016 referendum set up the divisions that are still ripping the party apart.

Gary Younge is more considered
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/labour-why-lost-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-media

The left must now find the space to grieve and think simultaneously.

He points out that the shift to the left amongst Labour campaigners is real and

It’s not enough to blame Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit or the media. The picture is far more complex than that

By then it may be too late though to turn around and make up with the EU, if a Brexit that benefits just the USA is pushed through, cha...

I expect we'll be so irrevocably bound up by trade deals* with the US that even an attempt to rejoin the EU will be utterly punitive, and make austerity look like Christmas.

* trade deals that will, to all intents, castrate Parliament, and subsequent governments, and make sovereignty a fanciful anachronism.

It was people over 44 what won it
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/12/how-britain-voted-and-why-my-2019-general-election-post-vote-poll/

The picture is far more complex than that

This is always true. But it doesn’t make for a good narrative for the meedja (too many things to keep track of, understand and explain) and it seems the public increasingly do not want to hear it. Hence “get Brexit done” and the rest of slogan and soundbite politics over the years.
(Preaching to the choir, I know...)

when people say they can’t vote for Jc because of his perceived weakness I feel so depressed, I know there are lots of reasons but this idea in particular upsets me. To me it indicates how hardened and brutalised people are, i know how much it effects how tolerant of cruelty and prejudice you can be.

Boomers.

Yeah that is my worry too.

51st state of the USA, rather than power in the EU.

https://www.facebook.com/MakeVotesMatter/photos/a.1602175443376366/2421086518151917/?type=3&theater

Maybe though the loser is not Labour, the winner is just FPTP...

Time to support a PR campaign?

That's what I'm thinking.

Wish we'd paid more attention in 2011 now, but that ref did not attract much support

Yes. I agree.

Jonathan Freedland's column is very good.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Yes. I read that earlier and thought how it mirrored the discussion we had in here.

A damming but fair verdict

Not sure it was that much better, I didn't follow it in detail as I couldn't vote on it.

So not sure if solution was bad or voters preferred to complain how hopeless it is and how little say they have and just do nothing at all.

I would be interested in what data Corbyn's team were looking at, and if and how they were responding to that data.

I imagine the Tories are all over this, especially with Cummings and everything that happened during the referendum. And I can make up a story in my head whereby the close knit group of 60 to 70 somethings at the top of labour are not.

There's a passage in the Christopher Wylie book about when he was working with the lib dems, anything that went against the party line would be explained away in terms of how the lib dems won the Basildon by election against all odds: so negative data could be safely ignored. It wouldnt be a great shock to learn that something similar existed for the Corbyn team with the 2017 election taking the place of the Basildon by election (the data looks awful, but dont worry - we've been through this before and it, almost, worked)

td;dr

What the fuck were Corbyn and his team looking at that made them think this was working?

Why look at data when everything can be explained with dialectical materialism?

What the fuck were Corbyn and his team looking at that made them think this was working?

"This side of the revolution, the revolutionaries are a minority".

The dislike is manufactured by the media

Rubbish.

I especially liked this bit;

And if judged not by the academic standard of “expanding the discourse”, but by the hard, practical measure of improving actual people’s actual lives, those hate figures of Corbynism – Tony Blair and Gordon Brown – achieved more in four hours than Corbyn achieved in four years. Why? Because they did what it took to win power.

@cozey u ok hun?

How else do the general public find out anything to like or dislike?