Cargo Bikes

Any opinions about roller brakes vs discs?

If you've got e assist I wouldn't really care which. Rollers are heavier but difficult to fuck up, discs lighter but can finicky.

If you go Bakfiets I think they do models with Magura disc brakes which are the best in terms of reliability and ease of maintenance.

What about the tern gsd?

Had a spin on one of these on Monday - much awesome.

We both loved it. My wife does cycle a lot but isn’t used a cargo bikes / hauling shit around etc and still found it a delight to ride.

I think we would have gone for it but £££ when baby2 is on the way and a Brompton Electric was more achievable. (The need was mainly for commuting)

This is worth quoting again.

Can you explain more on what's up with the GSD?

QC Issues.

I handle warranty claims at my shop and we've found one or more of the
following issues on roughly half the GSDs we've built (~130 total)

Brake mounts require excessive facing Brake mounts are welded on
crooked and can't be fixed with any amount of facing Rear hydro line
crushed by motor casing during factory assembly (S10) Rear shift
housing crushed by motor casing during factory assembly (S10) Drive
unit mounting bolts being severely under torqued Drive unit mounting
bolts being over torqued to the point in which they break the lips off
the motor that hold the bolt head in place, making them spin freely
when you try to loosen them Derailleur hanger not sitting flush with
dropout due to paint and getting destroyed by the thru axle after a
few wheel removals/installations Threads on Enviolo axle bolts
stripped during factory assembly (S00) Heads of rear caliper bolts
stripped during assembly Dust cap of freedhub body slowly working
itself loose while riding, resulting in the cassette being pushed far
enough out to mess with shifting and eventually seizing the freehub
body all together (S10) Speedometer cables spec'd too short, resulting
in premature failure due to the stress of coming out of the drive unit
at a right angle Top half of aft Power Pack harness welded on crooked,
resulting in a very tight if not impossible fitting for the aft Power
Pack (this seems to be an issue specifically when installing
keyed-alike systems) Spotty welding of the rear rack.

Hope the helps. The bike is fine once the QC issues have been
addressed, but I just wish they'd put some money back into having them
manufactured at a factory with higher standards.

I think we've eliminated the R&M Packster (the sus fork makes me very suspicious)

Why is that? They're dope on a bakfiets in my experience. The Suntour fork they spec is also super easy to service.

Saved me the trouble. Cheers!

How does a fork work with differing weights on the front of the bike? On a bike that tends to do a fair amount of miles in all weather, probably doesn't see quite as much maintenance as it should, and is largely ridden on smoother surfaces, I don't really see the point. Stick a big front tyre on and be done with it.

This is worth quoting again.

Why?

I think we've eliminated the R&M Packster (the sus fork makes me very suspicious)

We've tried a Babboe City which was quite good but the steering was super twitchy and the electric assist was a bit all or nothing - not quite enough to put us off but may prefer others enough to justify the £££

Going to try an Urban Arrow and Bakiets prob next week and we're trying to find a good day for a trip over the Glasgow to try an eBullitt too.

Any opinions about roller brakes vs discs?

The Shimano e6100 is seamless feeling, with 4 levels of torque based assistance. The torque sensing smoothly matches the motor output to the rider input, and has a very natural feel. The 4 levels set the upper limit of assistance: 0%, 33%, 66%, 100% (I guess) of the available power from the motor. The assistance ramps up very smoothly as your input increases.

Disk brakes are the way to go. I can't imagine why anyone would choose something else. I don't know what's finicky about them. They've been around forever. Just be sure you change the pads because they'll wear out quicker on a cargo bike than usual. Changing pads takes 15 minutes.

Because they obviously have large scale QC issues, something prospective buyers should be aware of. It's also disappointing considering Joshua Hon's stated intentions when he started the brand.

I don't know what's finicky about them

Really? Because we have a disc brake thread with like a million pages.

Because they obviously have large scale QC issues,

Evidence of angry customers with pitch forks pls

Half the bikes on a sample of 130 units is not simply anecdotal. It may be trivial to you (because the dealer can sort a lot of that out during a PDI, know they know what to look for), but personally I'd like to know, because IMO you can tell a lot about a brand from how the bikes are straight from the box.
It would also be fair to say that a good chunk of the target market is unlikely to understand half of the stated issues and to have an account on cyclingbikeradarroad.cc to complain.

What's the general consensus on the Omnium Mini, is the load area big enough to be useful?

Is there much difference in the ride between the mini-max and the cargo? Ie is the Mini-Max nicer to ride being the middle sized option.

This is why I don’t want a suspension fork.

Half the bikes on a sample of 130 units is not simply anecdotal.

I dunno, it's one experience documented by one person (who to me is an internet stranger) from a specific point in time at a specific place with a number of units that is a small sample compared to the overall production figures. I'm not really sure what conclusion I can draw other than I'd need to do some more research if I really want to know what is going on, if anything. Which I tried on Google but couldn't really find anything. That might be because despite the internet being universally populated by well educated complainers that Tern GSD owners just happen to be the sort of person who cannot internet (really?!), or don't actually care, my Google fu is weak, or it might mean something else. So I can ask around if you like?

Any opinions about roller brakes vs discs?

Actually, something specific on this, @bright said

I can't imagine why anyone would choose something else (discs)

If you leave your bike locked up outside for long periods of time or in, say, a shed with high levels of moisture some disc brakes will die a very early death through corrosion in calliper body, piston or both. Drum or Rollers are more resistant to harsh environments because they are fully sealed. Disc brake fluid is also affected by moisture - Dot more than Mineral - which is why it needs changing periodically. Stored wet, you'd need to change the fluid more frequently.

This is why I don’t want a suspension fork.

I wouldn't get a sus fork unless you have a very supportive dealer who can do the preventative maintenance on it every 100 hours or so ride time. You can compensate for different loads in the box by adjusting the preload but yeah who has time for that.

So we tried an Urban Arrow this morning. It's good, much nicer to ride that the Babboe. Wee man really enjoyed sitting in the box too.

Handling took a minute to get use to but rapidly got some confidence (tho not enough to do a rolling U-turn on the small streets we used to test). The brakes (hydraulic disc) were good even in the the wet.

Motor assist was pretty solid but I didn't try any big hills.

Returning to the disc v roller: seeing as we have some pretty steep hills of non-negligible length, so discs would be be better for that. We will have a garage so it won't be stored in the rain.

You do you, boo. Just make sure you ask whichever shop you buy from if they addressed the issues mentioned before you take it home. If they give you a confused look or try to tell you it's normal for the brakes to rub on a new bike, go to another shop.

That was a tl:dr version of my post... Unlike the frame failures Tern folders are famous for, long term durability issues and shoddy assembly would not be obvious to the average buyer, especially since a lot of that stuff would be sorted during the PDI.
I'm not telling anyone not a buy a Tern GSD (which is by all accounts a good design), in the same time I think it's good to have some feedback from a forum member who works with cargo bikes every day. Anyway. Moving on.

I’d buy from the family member who has a business selling cargo bikes :)

Yeah the urban arrow is great, v solid ride!

U turns and long tight corners... trick is to not lean, and to rely on the steering. Also helps to pedal through the turn while lightly holding the brake in the easiest gear. They come with quite a lot of restriction on the turning range (direct from UA anyway) but it’s easy to adjust.

As for the motor assist up hills. You’ll be fine with the weaker motor in most cases (performance?!) but if planning to carry weights in excess of 100kg up hills you’ll appreciate the extra torque from the cx

This, its not that the Tern GSD is bad, as you I like the design and a lot of it makes sense, most of those issues can be dealt with by dealer during build, however I would guess half of all their sales are box shipped straight to customer, and most folk I have seen with a GSD will not know how to deal with these issues (and they really shouldn't be getting as far as the customer anyway). Heard of a few folk who are minutes away from buying a Surly/Kona/Xtracycle long tail bike, and then turn right and buy a GSD, so they are doing something right.

Omnium e8000, not available until end of Q1 2020 at this rate, very slow ship, think its got stuck in the Antarctic pack ice, possibly the same ship that has all the worlds budget 27.5" rims locked in its hold! We are thinking of dealing Omnium as well, get asked for them so often, can't imagine the mid drive being as much of a requirement for folk as it is for larger bikes, but nice to know it exists!

Anyone shipping bikes to consumers would have to do a PDI or similar then re-box in a consumer friendly way before shipping. They wouldn’t stay in business long if they didn’t... right? That goes for a dealer and the direct to consumer models.

Anyone want an Omnomnom bag? Getting rid of a couple, one has been taken, one left free to a good home. Collection Southwark or Hackney.