Owning your own home

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying there are hundreds of thousands of Victorian houses in London alone, and I don't see them being repaired with lime plaster.

They are essentially life expired and people do what they can to keep them going.

They are essentially life expired

No they aren't. The original techniques and materials are good for a few hundred years.

Lime mortar just needs regular upkeep (every few decades).

Its6 the juxtaposition of modern materials that is the killer.

Ok, I guess we'll agree to disagree here.

Most Victorian houses were knocked up out of whatever was to hand, with minimal concern for life expectancy or integrity.

I've lived in them all my life. I've worked on them. I've seen what they are made of.

Yes, you could (and ideally should) keep it going with period correct materials, I just don't think it's a practical proposition for most home owners who pick up one of these places like 6th or 7th or maybe even 38th hand.

Fair enough. My experience is limited to ones which have beeen put up pretty well., where the damage and degradation is entirely from material choice.

Out of interest, is this in London or elsewhere?

Whilst I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the housing stock in London is lower quality compared to places which perhaps didn't have the pace and quantity of development at that time.

The other thing about much of London's Victorian housing stock is that it's built on clay soils with very shallow foundations, resulting in varying degrees of movement / subsidence being common. That and residual bomb damage.

I'm starting to sympathise with your point. I've gone down a rabbit hole and it seems like unless I remove the gypsum plaster on the inside the breathability will be compromised. Bit of an extreme conclusion but it makes sense I guess if vapour is meant to pass from inside to out.

I was planning to insulate a back bedroom internally, but now unsure what the hell I should be using to do so.

Vapour is meant to pass from the inside to out but a repeated large build up of moisture on the inside of a building is unlikely to be solved by taking down gypsum plaster and replacing it with lime plaster.

Yes there are many problems with period properties, many of which are caused by poor maintenance choices over their lifespan. You have to remember that when your period Victorian house was built peoples homes worked in a very different way. If you live in a Victorian terrace it is likely that the building was designed as a series of basic rooms that were heated by an open fire that actively drew air out of a room and up the flue. Period windows aided this as they let air in, even when closed, as they weren't exactly draught proof. Modern uPVC windows are pretty much draught proof and many fire places have been closed off, often badly, even if the nice cast iron period fireplace is still there as a design statement nodding to a building's past it's likely that something has been shoved up the flue to seal it. This has a tendancy to hold water in the flue which can cause problems.

People's personal hygiene was also radically different and was very, very unlikely to involve a shower; a device that is very good and getting you clean quickly but also very good at raising the humidity of a whole house very quickly.

Added to all of this is the fact that many walls in these properties are solid construction so cold bridging is a constant issue allowing condensation to build up on them. Especially when central heating is doing a much better job of heating a house than burning solid fuels ever could.

TLDR: Yes using lime plaster may help with moisture / damp issues but there are many more pressing issues.

Oh, and with the spalling that was mentioned up thread. Yes the choice of mortar may be an issue but before looking at that I'd first consider:

1. Previous attempts at repointing, if the wrong pattern of pointing was used or it was done badly this will be the #1 cause of spalling.
   
2. In all likelihood the QC employed in the manufacture of Victorian bricks was a bit hit and miss. Intact often houses were rendered to cover up and protect shitty bricks. Which brings on to...
   
3. If you live in one the only 2 houses in a street of Victorian terraces that isn't rendered it probably was at some point and someone stripped off removing a substantial layer of protection for the brickwork. This also has the effect of opening up flaws within the bricks accelerating the freeze/thaw cycle as water can penetrate easier.
   
   

Basically modern techniques and materials can be an issue. However it is possible to mitigate issues that may arise with forward planning. Insulating you back bedroom could well be a goer but if you are experiencing damp issues I'd identify and tackle the cause of that first, look at extraction in the bathroom and trickle vents in problem rooms. If it's actual rising damp there are steps that can be taken as well.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Reinstating the fireplace is also on long list of things to do, which should help move the air about and pump more heat into the place.

Houses around here are pretty good for not being plastered in cement, no idea why that is, regional variation I suppose. Bad pointing is rife though. luckily my place has escaped quite lightly, with only a little bit of dodgy cement repointing.

Western 'burbs. It's loamy soil this way.

Most of the stock is in reasonable nick, and even the tenement stock is good quality (with at least a pitch DPC).

You can see most damage being in conjunction with new building work.

no idea why that is

A poorer area?

My folks terrace is on a busy road that used to be moderately rough before gentrification. The houses on the backside face a nice garden square. As a result they were owned by people who were able to spend money on extensions. Whereas on my folk's side a lot of the houses are more original. Altho equally there are also some dodgy mods - eg heavy red tiles instead of slate.

Yeah I'm guessing this has a lot do with it.

As opposed to the high quality buildings being built now?

No offence but you are wrong on a number of levels. If you're undertaking repairs doing them properly will ensure the building functions properly and other repairs may be less likely (loss of brick face due to inappropriate cementatious mortars etc).

As opposed to the high quality buildings being built now?

Well, building regs have come on somewhat in the last 150 years.

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting that it isn't preferable to use period correct materials, I'm just suggesting that it isn't always that practical and may not be the highest priority.

But as I'm wrong on a number of levels, I'll keep quiet now.

But as I'm wrong on a number of levels, I'll keep quiet now.

FWIW, I agree with at least some of the things you've stated.

Period specificity can become it's own worst enemy.

I stripped a wall of gypsum lime, olastic membrane & brick, where the original chimney had been cackhandedly knocked away.

I agonised over how to make good, and ended up with a vapour layered plasterboard on a 2x2 stud, insulated with real wool, but ensuring a 2" void for *some* ventilation from below.

My problem with the gypsum was that it allowed much more efficient wicking of moisture through the underlying lime plaster.

I understand that it's the internet and all but are your opinions based on a bit of DIY?

It's not period specificity it's the use of materials and repair techniques that function correctly. Cementatious mortars in solid walls do not and will likely cause internal and external damage.

all my opinions on what? clay soils and subsidence? building regs? something else?

I'm not an expert and I'm not pretending to be one. Apologies if have inadvertently come across as a self proclaimed expert.

I know it's the internet but tbf, you haven't been very clear on what I'm wrong on a number of levels about.

Edit - having read back, yes that was rather a sweeping statement I made about Victorian construction methods; my bad I guess.

No problem.

On my comments regarding modern builds; I suspect the majority won't have the durability of our pre-war housing stock. Modern building regs are great but they can't negate cheap materials, poor workmanship etc.

Although sod living in any pre-war house conversion to flats that was done before modern Part E changes.

I suspect the majority won't have the durability of our pre-war housing stock.

Yes, interesting point. I was quite shocked at how short design life of some modern buildings can be. (30 years for a new school, for example)

Seems to be viewed as acceptable on the basis that it'll be cheaper to knock it down and build something else, when the time comes.

My wife's family have a 200 year old cottage made out of chalk. It's been badly repaired with cement at some point over the last 40 years. That's a proper headache. Also, it's listed so knocking it down and starting again isn't an option!

Our current kitchen is the standard Victorian extended kitchen (with the bathroom moved upstairs), but the previous owners also put up a 'superior' lean-to on the side, built to a fairly good standard but still has a plastic roof.
Our plan is to open up the whole space to have an open plan kitchen with a standard pitched side return.
Our neighbours are absolutely lovely and have said they are totally happy for us to do the work, however they are not the owners - it's a housing association house.

I was expecting to get a party wall agreement and hopefully next door would would agree to using the same surveyor. However with a HA house it isn't their decision.

Does anyone has any knowledge of how this will go down? I did wonder if we can find the surveyor used by the HA and use him for our survey too - we won't get to choose who it is but that would save a lot of money.

I had a similar situation but with a council property. They used one of their own guys, I employed my own. No option to share. It all went smoothly enough once I'd pinned down who I should be dealing with. Slightly more expensive but not hugely in the overall scheme of things.

Ok good to know. Thanks 👍

Just looking, the council charged me £450 + VAT for the party wall agreement. (The other side cost me more than double that as they went with a private firm.)

From my experiences of dealing with a housing association be prepared to deal with some impenetrable beuracracy combined with a hefty dose of incompetence.