• Not to be partisan or anything but I see the hand wringing over disregarding the brexit result and how it has to be respected etc and then folk interceding with "oh dirty tricks, population change, wasn't clear, etc..."

    and then think of the IndyRef in 2014:

    UK Gov used same dirty tricks VoteLeave did, indeed, possible Cambridge Analytica involved then too (nobody seems to care enough to press the issue)

    UK Gov made same over blown promises Vote Leave did: indeed if you believe Cameron and Brown's "vow" Scotland would be a federal state now

    But instead of the hand wringing and objections and protest we see over Brexit, what we got then is Cameron fresh from 'love bombing' Scotland with grade B celebs like Eddy 'I like to visit the Fringe and do a Scotch accent' Izzard using his post referendum speech to say the real lesson that the Scottish independence issue taught us is that England needs it's own parliament, and EVEL was coined instead of any of the promised reforms for devolution.

    No objections from the UK electorate then, indeed, like Brexiteers most were content to crow "you lost get over it" at any objections to promises being broken or purdah being ignored... and we see where EVEL has taken us eh?

    So yeah. A fair measure of hubris happening on all levels and I hope outraged Remain voters give pause to mull over how much thought they gave to it at the time. I just hope that at the end of it lies an Independent Scotland with EU membership so we can be free of all the archaic, dysfunctional and self serving elitist bullshit that the UK parliament is entrenched in.

  • Yeah it does sound pretty partisan.

    You seem to be conflating leaving the Union with remaining in the EU - it's the other way around leaving = leaving, remain = remain. Changing the status quo will always be harder and met with greater resistance.

    The remain strategy was almost exactly the same - safer in the EU, safer in the Union (or project fear if you prefer). Yes the UK Govt effectively used its resources to push the Union, but it did the same in the for Brexit, and in IndyRef1 the Scottish Govt also did the same. Because it "worked before" is one of the reasons for a weak remain campaign.

    The Indy side laid out pretty detailed plans for people to weigh up, so I don't think it's a stretch to say people were better informed.

    Admittedly the result was fairly close 55.3% Vs. 44.7%, but importantly not only was it the highest turnout ever in the UK (84% vs 72%), it included 16&17yo.

    Out of interest, do you have any basis for the Cambridge Analytica claim? The only things I've found are some rumours that they tried to pitch for business. So would be curious to read more.

  • I hope outraged Remain voters give pause to mull over how much thought they gave to it at the time.

    I was genuinely relieved Scotland didn't leave, really just for my own selfish reason of not wanting you to leave us to nasty tory governments forever.

    But from an outsiders perspective its interesting the parallels you draw between the UK government and the Vote leave. It did seam like there were allot of massive questions around what currency you would use and ongoing EU membership which never seamed to really be answered by the pro independents side, a bit like trust me easiest trade deal in history

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