EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Might all London go yellow?

Would make sense. After the Brexit Party they have the clearest stance on the matter. With the defections they may get some of the trad blue remain seats. As part of a SNP + LibDem coalition also might ease some voters fears of a JC/JMcD government.

But I agree with blackcup that it's a bold position as opposed to the previous 2nd ref one, which at least recognized the other half of the voters.

Blackcup = Horatio = mrak = some bloody forrun

Lib Dems are fucking Tories in yellow suits. Every fule kno this.

Would you vote a remainer pseudo-Tory over a leaver Labour candidate in this election?

I can't come up with a suitable response.
The lib Dems have shown themselves to roll over so many times.

The lib Dems have shown themselves to roll over so many times.

Life as a minority partner.

It’s different now. The minor parties thrive on the Brexit issue. In a Labour + Lib Dem coalition Revoke will be on the Referendum ballot and (unofficially) most of labour will campaign for it.

This is why Johnson could win an election, because the opposition is divided and splits the progressive vote allowing Tory candidates to sneak in.

is there any footage of the last 30 mins of parliament last night ? sounds like it was worth a watch

might try and catch up today sometime, banners scuffling jostling .... how very english

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEej5VdPEkI

boris on from about 1h 20m from the end of this

DUP seem to have a better grasp on how to play that and in a Labour majority remain will be on a referendum ballot. Lib dems are currently saying they'll stand down for Rory Stewart despite him being pro brexit, if not pro no deal, and he's definitely still a pro austerity Tory, even if he currently out of the party.

Would you vote a remainer pseudo-Tory over a leaver Labour candidate in this election?

This highlights why an election is so shit.

If I'm a traditional small-c conservative business owner im/exporting to the EU who do I vote for?

If I'm an anti-capitalist who sees the EU as an imperialist endeavor to maintain the wealth of European elites at the expense of the workers RoW who do I vote for?

If I live in a heavily Jewish area with a pretty good Tory MP from a local perspective, where Labour are always 2nd, who do I tactically vote for?

(the last one is me)

Exactly, it's why it should be decided by a second referendum and not a general election, GE is such a red herring to have at the moment, in no way will it give a clear mandate on Brexit. Make it a binding referendum and it would shut down all the protests that the result would be ignored and ignoring the result if its one the opposition don't like.

Are we a representative democracy or a direct one? Because if you want to continue to be the former, and you should, then making a referendum binding makes no sense.

Personally I’d prefer we made our way out of this mess through parliamentary means, but that will outrage a large section of society, probably with justification. If we have a second referendum, the divisions will continue and, if remain won, the leave vote will be calling to make it best of three.

This highlights why an election is so shit.

If I'm a traditional small-c conservative business owner im/exporting to the EU who do I vote for?

If I'm an anti-capitalist who sees the EU as an imperialist endeavor to maintain the wealth of European elites at the expense of the workers RoW who do I vote for?

If I live in a heavily Jewish area with a pretty good Tory MP from a local perspective, where Labour are always 2nd, who do I tactically vote for?

(the last one is me)

The old divisions are (at least for now) secondary in importance to Leave/Remain - the core of which is basically our new politics.

Rory Stewart is closer to Corbyn than he is to Johnson, for e.g. in terms of observance of rule of law, preservation of human rights etc.

The antisemitism thing is a problem that cuts across this, however - I don't know what that does to the situation for voters.

Makes sense in as much as it avoids the best of three scenario which is exactly the problem of a second vote as currently proposed

@greentricky Neither of the likely routes forward (No Deal or Referendum) has any credibility let alone a mandate until it’s been in the manifesto for a successful bid for government.

If you think a referendum is happening without a change of government you’re dreaming. A Boris deal is more likely.

so there is no government .... lets run wild, let anarchy break out, go brakeless, skid down whitehall, knock a policemans hat off,

34 days of purge

Stewart is behind this exiled-tory Kinnock Deal which Labour initially conceived.

Jesus what a mess.

If poroguey Boris goes rougey and ignores the law ... disregarded the constabulary!

hhmmmmn that was a vicious round of " shame on you's " delivered by the opposition as the tories left the house last night

#withering

So looks like there are a couple of routes now...

Most likely (IMO) - Johnson paints lipstick on May's deal (NI only backstop), bins the DUP and brings it back for a vote after the summit and when parliament is back. ERG will still be against, as will Lib Dems, but I think a vote on it would be incredibly close. All down to Corbyn's control over Labour. I call Brexit passing and mini extension to ratify etc and we're out.

Or - Fails to get a new deal, has to ask for extension. GE in November, Brexit party split the Tory vote, hung result, Lib/Lab/SNP (or some combo) government. 2nd ref - again nail-bitingly close. I call remain and revoke happening.

But though either vote could go either way, I reckon we're probably getting towards it being resolved.

Defeats by Prime Minister...

Thatcher - 4 in 11 years
Major - 6 in 7 years
Blair - 4 in 10 years
Brown - 3 in 3 years
Cameron - 10 in 6 years
May - 33 in 3 years
Johnson - 6 in one week

STRONG AND STABLE

chaos with ed milliband tho.

U dizzy?

The fact that he is bias towards my views doesn't stop me from seeing it.

The speaker's job is to defend parliament, not the government.

Blackcup - kiwi cricket team?