• Needless to say, I agree with the majority here that Johnson's decision to prorogue is wrong and undemocratic, and the fact is that he has quite blatantly lied about his motivations for calling for a new session of Parliament.

    That said, I also can't help but feel that Parliament has brought this upon itself. It's not enough for Parliament to say what it doesn't want. It has to offer an alternative that it will, collectively, support and push for. And after 3 years of bickering, and having given itself a number of opportunities to do so, it not only hasn't done so but seems no sign of having reached a conscensus about what should actually be done.

    Parliament had the chance to tell the government what it wanted. It blew that chance. Why do we think it stands a better chance of doing so now? Kicking the can down the route for ever and a day is not a viable option, and never has been.

  • I still blame the govt for that.

    The red lines that were introduced meant that no consensus option was available. Parliament is unable to solve an impossible conundrum, the govt has to give some space to move or be reasonable and it did not.

  • Parliament wasn't bound by the red lines though, and never was. It could have proposed any alternative it liked, whether or not that alternative stuck to the government's red lines. Norway plus, Canada plus, EEA, EFTA, CU+SM, 2nd referendum, revoke A50, whatever. All those options were open to Parliament to identify as its preferred option, and they failed to agree on a single one of them.

    We've had two round of indicative votes where Parliament has been given the opportunity to find an alternative it can collectively agree upon. In the second round of indicative votes two of the options were Ken Clarke's common market proposal and Nick Boles' Common Market 2.0 proposal (which I think was also in the first round). Neither of those proposals satisfied May's red lines, so it simply isn't right to claim that Parliament was hamstrung by May's red lines. It had a totally free hand to decide what alternative it wanted to propose, and failed to agree on any alternative proposal. Twice.

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