EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Except those in charge let "the people" say whatever they want them to say. We are all "the people". But somehow only when it suits.

And the UK press fact free fear mongering, how can you quell fears that are a fantasy?

We have to see what happens when parliament is back.

May's WA was also not the end and in a way just kicking the can down the road, which is another problem as technically a new parliament isn't bound by the previous one after a GE.

The wa may just pass this time if there are more votes, but we don't know yet what will happen. A GE may be most likely.

I blame the lib Dems for even entering

You spelled everything wrong.

(Jk. I <3 Chip Douglas Vince)

You never do :)

I believe Corbyn was correct in his assessment at the ref that the most damage done to progressive politics would be by ignoring the result. Fuck Brexit. But fuck the left coming out of this the villain and securing decades more Tory dominance.

You believe: “But Brexit is bad”

I get that.

I guess you can whinge about conspiracies or engage with the reality of the politics.

Fear being exploited ≠ fears being baseless.

a very accurate description on how the whole brexit process is looking from outside the uk

I think that would be all the same words but in a random order.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49420730

"I don't like those numbers. Please change them."

Pffff.... where did I mention conspiracies?

Simple example: Immigration. Dog whistling about Turkey (leave.eu), uncontrolled immigration (is it though), conflating refugees/EU immigrants... that is driving a conversation to go somewhere they want it to go.

Not: Hm is Immigration lowering wages? Good question. Let's do research. Oh. Actually it's a really complex picture. By then all the fear creation has already been done.

So you go from not complete baseless fair enough fears translatable into direct policies into a glut of underbelly vagueness.

And on immigration...turns out the UK attitudes are very positive ATM. Yet "the will of the people" is still in time at stuck at Farage and his posters.

Oh, I agree he’s put party before country- I just don’t think that will end up being to his (or the lefts) advantage.

I know it's the Sun but: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/9764957/boris-johnson-ireland-no-hard-border/

So much winning in Portsmouth & Dover.

Ireland already said "lol no" to that.

Merkel gave him 30 days to come up with something. Edit: she suggested 30 days...he suggested that was fine by him. Well if he drops the red lines...he can. CU and SM brexit saviour?

Much like Trump, he seems to keep churning out ridiculous ideas and then, when they are scorned, painting his opponents as unreasonable.

Well, when Priri Patel says we should use starvation on the Irish as a bargaining tool, the EU is obviously going to think that there's a danger that the UK will behave dishonorably and live up to their threats...

Please be respectful. It's Disgraced Former International Development Secretary And Death Penalty Supporter Priti Patel.

The Israeli Ambassador you mean? At least she's not going to be losing sleep over being called an antisemite any time soon!

Forest Fr1ends getting it right:

Sorry!

Priri Patel says we should use starvation on the Irish as a bargaining tool

Did she say that? Didn't I read somewhere that Ireland is one of few countries to have a food surplus and exports loads of it to the UK?

As long as she doesn't say anything negative about Israel's foreign policy re: Palestine...

Pffff.... where did I mention conspiracies?

The first two paras of your previous comment. I think? Conspiracies exist. For example Gove’s relationship with The Mail. The point is that it’s indulgent and useless whining about all of that because it doesn’t change any minds.

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Except those in charge let "the people" say whatever they want them to say. We are all "the people". But somehow only when it suits.

And the UK press fact free fear mongering, how can you quell fears that are a fantasy?

"I don't like those numbers. Please change them."

That was my initial thought. But a closer look suggests the stats were convenient for previous administrations and the ONS have previously, repeatedly warned the figures are likely flawed. (see ‘understanding the evidence’ regarding IPS).

The politics may have been a factor in why methods weren’t improved and why this wasn’t public sooner.

Sorry if that doesn’t fit the spirit of the thread :)

Deflecting responsibility, blaming others, is a hallmark of powerful popularists. It works fine for Trump or Boris if his ideas are rejected (if people buy into their bonkers narrative).

I don't know if you have missed it... but somehow judges are now "the enemy of the people" (sorta standard the Sun really) but now the rhetorics of the -government- (not all MPs) is quite messed up atm.

I don't really see how that is a conspiracy theory, it is in plain sight.

Because it all blamed on "Ireland" "Remainers" whatever, and when such groups air fears it is "project fear".

I'd hope that anybody invoking "the people" would actually try to get everyone on board. Not just a subgroup and then shout down everyone else.

As for immigration bullshit Charlie Brooker's newswipe section from ages ago, well it hasn't really changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jai4v4aNe-s

But, I'm all for more input of everyone. The ROI referendum system is quite sound, citizen groups work really well. I am just extremely wary of the "UK first WILL OF THE PEOPLE" sort of cherrypicking.

I don't know if you have missed it...

I hadn’t ;-)

I try not to base my response to each and every political issue on my gut reaction to it.

'They' have captured the executive, so the logical consequence is for 'them' to try and weaken the other branches of the balance of power in the state, the legislative (death threats to MPs) and the judiciary. This is obviously an extremely bad idea, but what isn't in all this?