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  • Could you tell me where you're getting this viewpoint from? Because I've seen a lot of people repeat it, but it bears no relationship to reality that I can see.

    Even if the Lib Dems all voted for Corbyn - which they've said they will do if he can demonstrate that he can get the numbers - that still wouldn't be enough to compensate for the 8 or so Tories who've openly stated they'd never vote for Corbyn and would prefer a no deal Brexit, and the 8 or so Labour / ex Labour / Indies who've said the same.

    Lib Dems aren't saying they won't support him. They're saying if they DID support him it wouldn't make a difference because he can't get the numbers. And that seems to me to be a pragmatic measure of the numbers. The first rule of politics is, learn to count.

    Also this idea that the leader of the opposition automatically gets to form a GNU is not substantive. Most GNUs in the last 100 years or so have been formed by a backbencher precisely to avoid any of these sorts of egotistical tussles about prominence.

    Basically, you're entitled to your opinion, obviously, but you can't say 'Lib Dems are being unreasonable by saying Corbyn can't lead the GNU' without saying 'Corbyn is being equally unreasonable by insisting he does'. Both are conditions. Both make no deal more likely. Both have no place in a pragmatic solution.

  • Basically, you're entitled to your opinion, obviously, but you can't say 'Lib Dems are being unreasonable by saying Corbyn can't lead the GNU' without saying 'Corbyn is being equally unreasonable by insisting he does'. Both are conditions. Both make no deal more likely. Both have no place in a pragmatic solution.

    Except one party is the official opposition, with a larger share of support from voters, and the norm choice when it comes to constitionally forming a new government.

    In any case, Swinson softened her position almost immediately when it became clear it was a mistake. The ball is really in the rebel Tories hands at this point. But, as mentioned above, it doesn't matter yet anyway.

  • Do you honestly believe Corbyn will get Tories onside?

  • I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just pointing out that there's a hypocrisy in being fine with Corbyn's red lines but not with Swinson's red lines (especially when, as you say, Swinson rowed them back!).

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