EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Ok, so we've now just moved to generic insults?

I do think the younger generation growing up now is less likely to read one of those chain letter thingies on Facebook and believe everything it says like some people clearly do.

For me, it's a much bigger problem than chain letter thingies on Facebook. For example: the Trump campaign was spending 1 million dollars a day (just digital ads) to try and influence susceptible voters in the final weeks of the election. That's before you consider the influence over other media.

Spending lots of money in a very targeted way is a winning tactic, but I have two problems with it: using lies (propaganda) to create your desired behaviour change and ensuring a level playing field for all candidates/policies (spending limits).

Vote Leave had a winning tactic/team, but they lied and went over the spending limits.

Mate, I don't even know what you want at this point. I made a facetious remark, you responded in earnest, a pointless conversation ensued and now we're swirling around in a sea of nonsense while you try to prove that I was actually being super serious for some reason that only you can attest to. If this is serving a purpose for you then I'm glad to be of assistance, but maybe it's better to acknowledge that this is just a giant waste of everyone's time and go our separate ways hopefully never to cross paths ever again?

Oh yes for sure, the chain letters were more an example for something that should in theory be clearly identifiable as sketchy at best, and yet so many people not only believe them, but do their part in sharing it themselves. If they fail at that hurdle already, how well-prepared are they going to be to deal with the targeted ads you mention?

And I fully agree with what you say with regards to wilfully spreading disinformation, and the disparity in spending power by campaigns. The whole matter is complicated by the fine-tuned targeting capabilities that you now have through social media - is it just the natural 'next step' in advertising that has now reached political advertising, or is it going too far?

One thing that I would like to see is full transparency of advertising. There's no (good) reason that I know of for keeping the details of political advertising secret. I would like to be able to go to a central website that lists in detail how much advertising money a specific campaign spent, where, on what. In itself, that wouldn't solve anything of course, but at least it would take a lot of the guesswork out.

@Eejit

you responded in earnest

I suppose the easiest way out of this is to claim I was merely joking too, and call it a day.

That’s possibly the best gag you’ve ever posted.

One thing that I would like to see is full transparency of advertising. There's no (good) reason that I know of for keeping the details of political advertising secret. I would like to be able to go to a central website that lists in detail how much advertising money a specific campaign spent, where, on what.

That's what Facebook has already done. You can go and check out the content/spending for past political Facebook ads (since the feature was introduced).

It could be better: everything in one place, more policing/fines for people trying to 'bend the rules', etc.

Oh I see, I wasn't aware of that! That's good of course, though it'd be nicer if that was enforced on a country level with mandatory reporting by the campaigns. Rather than us having to hope more social media follows the Facebook 'example', and then having to scrape the data from all kinds of different sources to get a better overall picture...

Which is odd, really - almost total uncertainty is preferred over the status quo,

Not if you view Europe as a progressive force and counter to your own agenda (or ‘Britain’s agenda’ as you’d like it).

...which suggests that people don't believe that things can get worse,

They believe it can and likely would if we continue tied closely to Europe. They believe the short-term pain is inflated by teh liberal media etc

They’re not entirely incorrect I guess but it’s a bit like like burning down your house because you didn’t like the curtains, which I submit is erroneous.

He’s the only forumenger I’ve ever put on ignore.

That was after a single interaction.

We should throw a party for that achievement.

Must have been traumatic. Jesus Christ, the thin skin some people here have...

Except it's only in certain places, and only where the group spending identify themselves as being political. (AFAIK anyhow).

In some ways I find the voter suppression adverts more disturbing. everyone should be driving for higher turnout at elections. I'd rather people went and spoilt their ballots deliberately than didn't vote. Those spoilt ballots are noted, not voting isn't.

I'd love to do something like the Tactical 2017 combined with the Democracy Club stuff that also allows you to easily produce flyers with a map for where the polling station for the area is, and a list of the addresses covered by it, that you could take to a printers to get printed up for you. But I'm not sure that I can code it.

I think I'd also need to look at what you need to do legally around that too, ensuring that spending reporting etc. gets done, but I think that should be codeable too.

I'd love for a central site that pulled all advertising for elections into once place, so that you could drill down to an area and see what has been sent to where, or what has been put up on what bill boards etc, but that seems rather unrealistic somehow, maybe you could pull an amount of it together with crowdsourcing now?

This is exactly my point, you just explain it better.

I didn't call all leave voters gullible, I said the leave campaign targeted the gullible (few) with propoganda as they realised this was enough to tip the balance in their favour.

My own dad and mum being a prime example. They swallowed the £350m per week and "make this country great again" without any substance to back it up other than the theme that it'll be the easiest negotiation in history to get all the things we want from brexit.

Neither of my parents are stupid. Far from it. I suspect my dad would vote leave again out of pure bloody mindedness but my mum feels duped now she's more informed. And would vote to remain.

has this been resolved yet?

has this been revoked yet?

.

Can anyone get the text for this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/30/boris-johnsons-new-pm-polling-boost-second-blairs-modern-times/

Doubtful. Someone would have to admit paying to access the DT.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...

Thanks for that link. Very interesting and emotive, as you said.

I was hoping there was a sneaky trick - I can neither confirm nor deny its existence

This is the important bit anyway: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7jp5dz617c/SundayTimes_190726_VI_Boris_Brexit_w.pdf

BXP down 4% and Tories up 6% between 23/24 and 25/26

And this graph

1 Attachment

Fintan O'Toole explains Brexit and Johnson in this podcast
https://abcmedia.akamaized.net/rn/podcast/2019/07/lnl_20190730_2220.mp3
He reminds us that for the 2014 independance referendum the Scottish government published a 950 page document setting out the issues. In 2016 Vote Leave only said two things, both lies: Take Back Control & £350 million.
It was the lies and liars wot won the referendum.

It’s why they still won’t engage with the trade offs we are going to have to make, for e.g. McClusky talking about fighting to retain jobs in factories that can’t make a profit without admitting that it’s Brexit that has caused the situation and is not within the gift of a company to change.

With the Good Friday Agreement referendum, the agreement was published and delivered to every voter...and then the vote could be made from an informed position.

Not a Pavlovian response to some dog whistling

Interesting spanner in the works to consider.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

The UK - US trade deal is a belief, an ideological certainty, mere facts can get fucked in the face of its religious importance to the Raabian world view.

Plus Trump will simply over rule any objections as Socialism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49172693

BoJo is visiting Belfast and us continuing the blame game with the DUP.

If he's smart he'll offer to nationalize Harland & Wolff (the shipyard owning the beautiful yellow cranes) or offer them a bridge loan as the administrators are called in.

But other government sources call it "a commercial issue"so...

We are so fucked :(