• Anyway, apparently the UN is also an anti-Semitic organisation because it tabled motions denouncing Israel's indescriminate killing of Palestinian civilians. If that's the current threshold for being an anti Semite I find that troubling.

    The fact that this attack line is still being repeated shows precisely how poor the Labour leadership's response to antisemitism is in terms of educating its base.

    Criticising Israeli foreign policy is not, in itself, antisemitic. It never has been. It's a straw man.

    Criticising Israeli foreign policy by invoking antisemitic conspiracy theories IS antisemitic. It always has been. And Corbyn types are the ones who tend to tip over into this kind of thing most often.

    It's like when Obama was president; it's not racist to say he was a shite president, but it would've been racist to say he was a shite president because his Kenyan ancestry somehow prevented him from being a proud American. One's racist, one isn't. It's quite clear.

    And changing the subject to Israel or Zionists when we're talking about the experience of British Jews in Labour is...perhaps not antisemitic, but at the very least it's whataboutery. We're talking about Labour. Let's talk about Labour.

    If you want a separate conversation about Israeli foreign policy I will gladly slag it off with you - Netynyahu is a headbanger and I'm 100% in favour of Palestinian rights - but lets not conflate the two.

  • I referred to Labour: under Milliband there was no accusations of anti-Semitism except when he initially proclaimed himself a Zionist then (in typical Milliband fashion) back-tracked the next day. I find it strange that as soon as Corbyn is at the helm it is then deemed to have a profound and institutionalised problem, and this makes the accusations (against a man who has a track record of solidarity with antiracist causes and links to the Jewish community) seem gratuitous.

    Undeniably, Labour under Corbyn have botched handling these accusations but then, they seem to have botched everything else too so it's not surprising...

  • I just think Jewish people have better things to do with their time than make up accusations of antisemitism.

    Look, don't get me wrong, I 100% agree that the Times / Mail etc exploit these stories for political reasons, because they hate / fear / despise Corbyn. That's a given.

    But these accusations don't grow in a vacuum. The testimony of those whistleblowers is undeniable. The fact that the Jewish Labour Movement put a vote of no confidence in Corbyn is undeniable. The fact that so many Jewish MPs / Lords are resigning in protest at Labour's handling of antisemitism is undeniable. The three biggest Jewish newspapers in the UK all calling Corbyn an 'existential threat' is undeniable.

    Fight against the former by all means. But minimising the latter (or attributing it to a conspiracy) is dangerous territory.

  • I referred to Labour: under Milliband there was no accusations of anti-Semitism except when he initially proclaimed himself a Zionist then (in typical Milliband fashion) back-tracked the next day. I find it strange that as soon as Corbyn is at the helm it is then deemed to have a profound and institutionalised problem, and this makes the accusations (against a man who has a track record of solidarity with antiracist causes and links to the Jewish community) seem gratuitous.

    I think you would have to look at the dates and numbers of complaints to confirm that assertion. I don't have them but are there numbers of complaints to compare? I'm unaware whether those sorts of figures are published.

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