An awkward situation with a frame builder

It sounds very much like you said "build me something" with few specific details, but quite specific desires which were never fully communicated. Plus you've allowed them a year to dither while you dithered and altered the specs. That's a good sized fault at your end.

It also sounds like they've failed to build you something, or to communicate any problems or requirements to you. That's a good sized fault at their end.

Oli's judgement is that there is fault on both sides of this. Your best option is to go and see them to agree a way forwards which should be to nail down a spec list, a timescale which should be in the region of 3 months but no more than 4, and that after which it's refund time followed by small claims court if not forthcoming.

First, phone them up and agree a time and day to visit.

Who remembers the 14R ?

Oh my build me something requirement was very specific, I asked a lot of questions with what's possible and what's not, if not, why and what would be their recommendations and I accpeted pretty much all recommendations... I remember asking things like what is the different between the headtube angle from my bike fit and his suggestion, how the cables should be routed and the clearance for wheels and the pros and cons etc. How much more specific should I be without saying build me a bike that looks like that?

I never went to them and say "build me a fancy (type) bike".

I am not saying I am completing fault free in this drama, but we locked down the specs of the actual frame over a year ago with an understanding that the graphics was going to come at some point soon. Surly what paint job to go onto the frame isn't a decisison that must be made at the same time as what tubes to use and what angle the headtube should be?

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be harsh though and do wish you luck in finding a resolution.
But whatever - the suggested course of action seems reasonable, no?

I had a bad experience which does sour the enjoyment of my custom frame a bit. I was lied to a number of times about it being started/ready soon when in fact it wasn't. If I could do it again, I would have asked for a refund and went else where.

in Aug 2017, I decided to commission a quite famous and very well respected frame builder for a titanium frame and fork

Your three mistakes, in ascending order of lunacy:

1. Never go custom on a solo bicycle. The mass market is big enough that everything which should be built will be built. If you're going custom, it's because you are wrong.
   
2. Never, never get a titanium frame. The material has no advantages in a bicycle which justify the cost in money and performance compared with alternatives.
   
3. Never, never, never get a titanium fork. People were wrong to try it in the 90s when all the post cold war defence industry contraction made people look for other outlets, but at least they realised they were wrong and stopped doing it.
   

Never, never, never get a titanium fork. People were wrong to try it in the 90s when all the post cold war defence industry contraction made people look for other outlets, but at least they realised they were wrong and stopped doing it.

i think the OP was told this on their build thread at the time

TESTER-FY

Amen

Sounds like a perfect storm. The OP should have prosecuted his build more vigorously and the framebuilder should have been more honest and professional in the progress of the build.

Personally I think you've invested too much time into this project to walk away.

Don’t Enigma have there very own very loooong running thread a bit like this on singletrack

Fuck I missed the titanium fork bit. Thread on ignore.

I'm hazarding a guess that most of the replies are from people who either know the OP or the builder?
Personally, if someone was sitting on two and a half large of my money, it would have been sorted one way or another by now, regardless of who was pulling the bigger cunt's trick.

And I would have burned my tweed, put my selvedge through a boil wash and had a bloody good shave.......I would have kicked myself in the slats too, but would fuck my back up trying.

Enigma

We could continue it here, if you like. Once ordered a frame from them. Heard nothing for several months. Asked why, and was told they'd forgotten about it. Got stuck at the bottom of the in-tray. Hadn't even started it. Eventually got the frame. Then it cracked.

I tried buying a Lynskey, once.

Thread title led me to believe there was some kind of spicy romantic liaison going on

Am extremely disappoint :-(

Yeah, me too. I was hoping @Pistanator had hooked up with Don Walker via Grindr.

Again.

Never go custom on a solo bicycle. The mass market is big enough that everything which should be built will be built.

Colleague of mine dropped something like ten large (for a full bike with Campag eps) of his fire brigade pension lump sum on a Nevi. He was all set to fly out to Italy for a fit for custom geo when he spoke to them on the phone, they took a few of his measurements and told him not to bother because they’d just be charging him an extra couple Gs to make changes that could easily be accommodated within the adjustment available on the rails of his saddle and angle of his stem.

Stopped seeing the customer/OP as a person of sane mind when I read the bit about a titanium fork.

Speak to the framebuilder direct to come to a mutual agreement. Dont really see how having a bit of a whinge on the internet will benefit the situation for either of you TBH.

Also,

Enigma: If I had £1 for every horror story I've heard about Enigma, I'd have almost enough for a Set Menu for One from the Chinese round the corner, with extra prawn toast. I've never dealt with them personally though, so this is nothing more than hearsay to be totally fair.

Rusby: Jake decided to stop framebuilding over a year ago for various reasons. He’s now working in the engineering faculty at UWE.

.

ME TOO! Thought I was in for some light-hearted afternoon grot for free.

On a more serious note and as the general dogsbody for a frame builder that (usually) manages to stick to deadlines...

This isn't on, at either end. If your frame builder has been lying to you about timeframes, giving you excuse after excuse and just not getting on with things, that's bloody terrible and we think they should have offered you your deposit back, as a courtesy, if they hadn't started it after two years. On the flip side, you need to reign the project in as well OP.

If I were to commission a custom frame from someone other than my other half and the deadline came and went, I'd be asking a lot of questions and then once a year had gone...I would be asking for my deposit back so I could go elsewhere. You should have been getting regular updates, with pictures of your build, so you could get a feel for what was happening; that's the least someone should be sending you in lieu of a finished frame. Especially when you have dropped 2.5k already, with no finalised cost given? That all sounds very odd. A custom frame is a contract of design and work between the two of you and should be given a final price before you start dropping deposits. Extra incurred costs can then be agreed as and when and invoiced separately, so you can keep on top of your expenditure.

This all sounds like a bloody nightmare and I'd be lying if i said we weren't in the workshop as I type this, drinking a coffee and wondering who this is (while also swearing under our breath at another person making us all look like dishonest chumps!).

Hope you get all this sorted OP.

Ahh. A reasonable person who knows the value of an agreed time and day for a visit! You're a rare treasure.

If I were to commission a custom frame from someone other than my other half and the deadline came and went, I'd be asking a lot of questions

Has he built you that cargo bike yet ;-)

light-hearted afternoon grot

New thread time...