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  • Actually no one last thing. Why should my parents feel guilty as Caroline Lucas has indicated about flying back from southern Italy to the u.k to see me and my sister. Your illustrious green no has said flying is a luxury and if we are serious about tackling climate change. My parents live in Italy because they have a better standard of living there as there pension goes alot futher. Also they like it. They like coming back to the u.k to see the children and grand children. We like going to see them and having a cheap holidays getting there by the environmentally sound car which produces less co2 per km than flying takes 4 days (you could do it two by yourself), the train takes just as long. A flight a day or alot less. According to Lucas my parents should be happy with there lot in Liverpool which is were there uk house is.

    A friend of mine has a job were he is required to fly alot all over the globe. Follow XR arguements and he should leave his job and his company not sell internationally.

    In fact that's the problem with XR arguments. There is a very visible streak of anti capitalism. XR supporters clearly state we cannot growing the economy that population has to come down. That's why the message does not get through. You asking people to feel guilty for living.

    Your asking me to feel guilty for wanting to get on a plane later his year and fly to Calabria and enjoy a week with my parents and travel there another way so by the time I get there it time to head back.

    I won't feel guilty for living. Neither does anyone I know. That's how XR looks to us.

    Then there the vegan thing. We can't eat meat because its too emmisions intensive. So I should feel guilty about the roast lamb I will have today.

    I am just being honest here that the message will not get through. It won't not because I am cynical because it the wrong message and in essence it's asking people to feel guilty about living.

  • Read some Zizek... or any philosophy. Capitalism isn’t the only way, but if it was, not the capitalism we have now - as a recent opinion piece said even Zizek would agree with regulated capitalism.

    Eat your lamb, but have it reared locally, humanely, and fed on grass that has no risk of pollutants, not battery farmed. Eat local. Support local business.

    I spent time living in Italy. It is awful, everyone drives even 100m to the shop, buy bottled water because they don’t trust tap water, throw litter into the ocean. If someone wants to spend their days there, I hope their experience was more positive than mine, because at every turn I met hypocrisy. Why is it more awful than in the UK? It probably isn’t, but I sure as hell had an awful time being verbally abused because I was a foreigner and therefore I was wrong - wrong even about what time of day you can eat an egg.

    My point is do what you want to do, but your experience is unique to you. I doubt you’ll find many here your advocate, not least because your arguments (just like I tried to illustrate with mine above) are highly reliant on anecdotal evidence.

  • Tl:dr fuck the world because change is inconvenient. Go you!

  • It’s because of people just like you that they are going to have to build a third runway at Heathrow.
    And yes, XR is anti capitalist. 3% growth pa means we double what we do now in less than a quarter of a century. Why can’t we accept that as a nation we have enough already and we can reduce inequality and start to repair the damage we’ve done?

  • You should feel guilty about flying to see your parents to shave a couple of days of travel off your holiday. You should feel guilty about eating lamb just because you feel like it. Your friend should feel guilty for producing more emissions than 50 people with normal jobs (is he so important?). It's most likely people in poor nations in decades to come who will bear the cost of your decisions and they don't have a say in what you choose to do. You are picking the "selfish enjoyment" option and expecting someone worse off to pay the price. How could you not feel guilty about that?

    (Not that there's anything wrong with doing something for selfish enjoyment. Simply staying alive is selfish enjoyment at the world's expense unless you are somehow directly responsible for reducing the severity of climate change by more than you increase it.

    But it has to be in moderation. Like eating 4 Easter eggs in a day, you feel a bit guilty, but recognise it's a rare occasion and is not sustainable to go on the same way all the time.)

    Christ I am an insufferable bore.

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