Suggestions for frames which might suit my body's weird forward geometry

Hi - I've been riding a PX Pro Carbon since 2012. I bought it second-hand then, the frame is 10 years old now and I want to upgrade.

I didn't pay any attention to its geometry when I bought it beyond the letters "XL," but now that I'm looking to upgrade I've realised just how Goldilocks its numbers are for me...but, even then, it's right at the lower end of how long a frame I need.

Here's my setup for reference:

https://imgur.com/a/FwsZFQb

The frame has a stack/reach of 590/405, the seatpost has a 20mm setback (but is set forward, with the saddle as far ahead as it'll go) and the stem is a 150. The bars are short reach with a 15mm rise.

I'd like an aero bike, but very few frames seem to let you get the saddle forward (as they all use proprietary seatposts,) but two I've found with that feature are Boardman AiR frames and Felt's AR series.

An AiR in XL/60cm has a stack/reach of 586/405, an AR in 58 is 587/405 and in 61 is 616/417. So the biggest AiR isn't big enough, but the biggest AR should be.

I would like to be able to use a stem shorter than 150mm, as I'm way out over the front wheel as it is, and my knees sometimes bang the back of the stem. If I could get the seatpost even further forward, I'd probably have it another 1/2cm ahead. The Felt has a reversible seatpost that would let me do that...does anyone know of any other frames with similar numbers? I will have to buy second-hand again, and AR frames in 61 are thin on the ground. I'm open to considering TT frames, but I'm worried they might be boat anchors, and most of their stack numbers are very low, so I'd have to use spacers, or a stem with rise...ew.

For the record, the position as-is is comfortable for 12-hour days, fast and great for climbing, and with a set of clip-ons with extensions mounted below the bars (Ambrosio Atritium 1s, in case anyone cares...) my back is flat and parallel to the ground.

Any help/advice/whatever appreciated!

the seatpost has a 20mm setback (but is set forward, with the saddle as far ahead as it'll go) and the stem is a 150.

y tho?

The further forward you can comfortably be, the more open your hip angle - important when you're (trying to be) aero!

I love a good #internetbikefit thread.

so I'd have to use spacers, or a stem with rise...ew.

Yet you think that is acceptable?

Are you racing?

That saddle should be in the Noah's Ark thread.

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Maybe look at a Cervelo P2C (classic version) frame and flip the stem to rising angles:

You can sit as forward as you like and it is still pretty aero compared to new frames. Especially if you modify it for internal cables: http://www.codybeals.com/2013/04/cervelo-p21-diy-internal-cable-routing/

(Could probably be built up cleaner... :))

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Surely your quest for aero is impacting on functionality with your saddle that far forward? There's a good reason you don't see anyone else (racing or otherwise) with their bike set up like that.

Some set back commentary from a bike fitter below:

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

Using this bike as an example of fit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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@Lolo

Yet you think that is acceptable?

I'm not sure if you're talking about the rise or the inward canter of the shifters...probably both. They look goofy but they're functional, the lower centre of the bars means that when I use clip-ons they've the same stack as the tops, and the angle of the shifters gives a more comfortable wrist angle (for me) when holding them out of the saddle, and moves my hands inboard when on the hoods. Aesthetically it is a bit jacked but I've converted a few friends by suggesting they try it -

@PhilDAS

Are you racing?

Sometimes...mostly training, stealing KOMs and sometimes showing up to club rides.

@Currid

Surely your quest for aero is impacting on functionality with your saddle that far forward?

You'd think, but whatever way my body is put together, it doesn't negatively affect me, I started with a much more traditional position and gradually arrived here with improvements all the way.

Here's what my position looks like on the hoods:

And on the tops, I still end up high enough that I left the frame. My arm span is about 6'8" (but I'm only 6'2" tall) -

It's been pointed out that my setup is very similar to Adam Hanssen's, my bike isn't nearly as gorgeous as his though -

@svenhöek

Maybe look at a Cervelo P2C

YES! I've been looking at similar TT bikes, just a bit nervous about weight, though the frame I'm on weighs about 2 kilos, so I probably shouldn't be. I found this P3 on a Slowtwitch thread and maybe I have a disease or something but I think it's gorgeous -

Sometimes...mostly training, stealing KOMs and sometimes showing up to club rides.

Not sure then why you care at all about being as aero as possible then? If you moved your saddle back, you could run a normal length stem and fit on a whole load more frames.
Have you done any aero testing to compare with power meter readings to say that your position is actually even aero whilst also your most powerful?
I’d start with a bike fitter

I don't actually mind the bars per se, but you can't say you want stem slammage yet have riser bars (this is just internet bantz by the way, no offense intended)...
You angle the shifters like that because your handlebars are too wide, you can achieve the same wrist/hand position by fitting narrower ones. Adam Hansen was on 38cm, and BTW if he was on 42/44 he would have had a much shorter stem.
I live in a flat and windy country, so I totally get the whole forward/aero position, and interest in Adam Hansen bike, but he was a pro with a big engine, I guess you're not.
The massive saddle tilt is also not a good sign, isn't your saddle too high?

tl:dr: get a bike fit ;-)

If you move your saddle back you decrease the hip closure angle - this was causing me numbness, and increasing it allows for less interruption of blood flow in the arteries of the leg. It definitely hasn't caused a loss of power, on the flat or climbing (I started with a traditional setup and moved to this gradually.)

You angle the shifters like that because your handlebars are too wide, you can achieve the same wrist/hand position by fitting narrower ones. Adam Hansen was on 38cm, and BTW if he was on 42/44 he would have had a much shorter stem.

I don't, I angle them like that for the reasons I mentioned above. The bars are 40cm Specialized Hover bars.

The massive saddle tilt is also not a good sign, isn't your saddle too high?

This saddle has a curve to it - the centre of the saddle, where my hip bones sit, is actually very close to horizontal - https://i.imgur.com/KaL2xHb.png

I live in a flat and windy country, so I totally get the whole forward/aero position, and interest in Adam Hansen bike, but he was a pro with a big engine, I guess you're not.

Rude. My engine's humongous.

If you're not on a super tight budget and you don't fit anything surely it's time to have a chat with a frame builder and get something in a lightweight stainless steel frame or some such?

Doesn't Adam Hansen's setup revolve around his rearward cleat/forward foot position (i.e. everything moves forward)?

That leg at the bottom of the stroke pic isn't great but it looks like your saddle is too high to me. And if you're worried about hip angle, have you looked into shorter cranks?

Yes, he was almost mid-foot. Less power, more torque or something.

I’d suggest a reputable bike fitter firstly.

Saddles seems squint and too high to me but I know the arse end of nothing really.

Stork Aerofast at 632/417 might do the trick.
However it does have that proprietary seatpost.
Seat tube angle is 73.5 compared to the 72.5 on your PX.

Stuck in Cork, Ireland

Will keep eyes peeled for proof of existence of this thing...

This site has all your bike geo needs https://www.geometrygeeks.bike/

My two pence on the internet bike fit: Saddle too high. Levels look awful.