EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Honda's said it has nothing to do with Brexit and they don't have any reason to lie about that.

They have every reason to soften the truth about it.

First of all Honda is a Japanese company. Don't know how much you're a Japan nerd but it's a culture where face is very important. They're not the sort of culture where they'd openly say HEY YOU GUYS SHIT THE BED AND NOW WE'RE OFF THANKS FOR THE MONEY THOUGH, they'll do it politely.

Second, Brexit is an emotive issue, and a significant number of their customers will be RABIDLY in favour of it. Any ref to Brexit when they leave and you're talking boycotts. FOREIGN BASTARDS FUCK OFF AND LEAVE US IN THE SCHTUCK, BLAME BREXIT ON WAY OUT, SHITBAGS type biz. It's bad business to reference Brexit.

Third, they don't owe us anything - they don't owe us the truth, and they don't owe us an intervention. It's much simpler and much easier and much less drama to say 'oh it's nothign to do with Brexit, you boys head on with yourselves, we're off with all the other car places that just so happen to be shutting down for matters unrelated to Brexit, fucks sake'.

Sure, which is a long term issue I guess. I don't really feel like it's a priority right now or over the next month or so.

I actually misread your post :)I thought it was a shrug in response to the list of leaving companies above (which you wrote...) of the "They're all bad companies anyway, nevermind" sort.

It's an open question whether they're a net gain or a loss. Some argue that the overall effect has been negative, short-termist, destabilising and predatory.

negative, short-termist, destabilising and predatory

Been talking to my exes eh?

And they are also going ATM... I doubt the UK can turn itself into the financial Singapore of the EU. The space is already taken.

Next thing you'll be telling us you're too big to fail.

Yeah, though if you think about it for more than a second it's unlikely that the volume increased 10 fold from 2012-2016 so the scale is obviously compressed :)

Those are all good points. I guess my (perhaps slightly amended, especially in light of that chart on the last page) point is that the industry was already in systemic decline in the UK, then dieselgate and emissions stuff came along, then Brexit. So kind of a triple whammy.

Oh yes and LOVE Japan. Went for the first time last spring. So good. But in terms of face see Hunt and Fox's latest fumble.

By and large, the car industry is ahead of the game on electric cars. Its public demand that needs to catch up.

The industry needs to catch up with public demand on pricing though. Nearly new Astra costs X, electric car costs Y.

Backtracking to the autos/ electric etc. The loss of jobs is one thing, the effect on any engineering firms still supplying parts for assembly is far more concerning IMO. Brexit serves to highlight the absurd interdependencies that exist as a result of a fragile globalisation that has significantly reduced national security (not in a militaristic sense) as the UK has taken the easy route and eroded critical secondary activity and skill/ knowledge base in favour of questionable tertiary activity. Rebuilding that ability I think is critical and an overhaul of personal transportation in the UK could provide one catalyst and kill various birds with one stone. It's unfortunate that e.g. Dyson has abandoned ship when that is the direction in which he is trying to re-invent himself, but it's an open playing field to start looking at pro-active solutions to the shitshow that has developed irrespective of the outcome of Brexit.

Re the huge investment required for setting up auto plant, Gordon Murray (the guy who designed the McClaren and was behind the racing teams success decades ago) has received a huge amount of government support for developing his solution which is little cars, efficiently manufactured and I believe had a far lower cost plant model for production that I think he was trying to sell as a product itself. I haven't checked his website yet, but will read and see
https://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/en/istream.html

Surely leveraging this kind of within UK innovation, knowledge and subsidised work should be leveraged to provide solutions and rebuilding of self-reliance and security irrespective of Brexit..?

Tldr: spend some fucking money on things that nurture innovation and jobs.

It's almost like if we'd done that, we might not be in this position in the first place.

Oh sure, I'm not saying it's trying to imply that. But even when it's obvious that the chart is cut off at some point, it leaves a different impression than when seeing it in the full context. But then I suppose it depends who the chart is aimed at as well.

Has anyone got the figures do a back of envelope calculation of what electricity draw would be generated from switching from petrol/ diesel to electric ?

Thats what I'm saying. Money's already been spent on doing that in specific areas. Leverage the result.

Has this been resolved yet?

Looks like Honda knew last June

Good article, a lot of granular detail of how Brexit actually affect the operation

This is related to the point I was making before re the need for rebuilding secondary activity as a priority:

"(Honda) would be glad to source more parts from within the UK and Brexit provides an opportunity to do just that. But it would take years — perhaps even a decade — to shift more supply to the UK, even if the parts companies were willing. Mr.Howells warns the UK supply base is “shallow” and more orders from Britain alone may not be a big enough incentive to deepen it."

i.e. we have next to f'ck all and what there is, is about to get marginalised to the point that it may be extincted at a time when it is most desperately needed as a foundation to expand and leverage

"2m components “flowing like water” to the factory line every working day"

"BMW, are facing similarly unforgiving choices. Almost 90 per cent of the parts assembled in the German group’s four British factories come from mainland Europe."

Which also has relevance for FTA’s we might sign in future- cars produced here don’t have enough UK content to count as being made here, for the purposes of an FTA, so they’d attract tariffs even if “UK made cars” were zero rated in the FTA.

I suspect the main attraction to our workforce is that they are low paid, compared to similar manufacturing jobs in the EU. I also read somewhere that the average American manufacturing worker earms $5 per hour more than the average British manufacturing worker.

this seems to suggest it's only 2 dollars more in the US (assuming avg 40 hour week), and taking into account the extra holiday pay in the UK and the NHS i think staff here might be getting the better deal

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/wages-in-manufacturing?continent=g20

I hadn't considered working conditions. Good point.

The US reports $21.86ph, the UK $19.50ph. I incorrectly read the overall wage average for the UK, looking at overall average wage instead.

Worth considering that purchasing power parity is nearly 35% higher in the US.

There were warnings Brexit could seriously damage manufacturing.

Ignored by the "will of the people" brigade in all parties, with only some willing to stand up and say it.