Politics Chat.

Exactly what I've been thinking about this whole mess.

I think a lot of it is attributed to members of the party

Re: not many parties with entire Wikipedia article etc.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party

no i get that, but what due diligence is being done to verify that that is the case?

even so, the barrier to entry for being a member of the labour party is notoriously low.

even so, the barrier to entry for being a member of the labour party is notoriously low.

I think this is the thing. I'm not making excuses and I don't have a great understanding of the bigger picture, but I think they have a really tough internet-policing issue to deal with. But then I see the issue with MP on the day before holocaust memorial day upthread and it just makes you wonder what they're thinking

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/antisemitism-no-justification-for-singling-out-labour/

of course it goes without saying that one allegation is one allegation too many.

OK @croft taking you at your word that you dont know about this and was genuinely asking for info, here we go, this took me about 3 mins on google:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-institutional-racism-in-my-local-labour-party/
https://labourlist.org/2019/02/jewish-labour-movement-zero-tolerance-for-labour-antisemitism-little-has-changed/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/jim-sheridan-former-labour-mp-suspended-over-antisemitism-row-says-accusers-misguided
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-activist-suspended-for-anti-semitism-after-liverpool-mp-louise-ellman-demands-tougher-action_uk_5c65e154e4b01757c3699e60
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/labour-chiefs-must-disclose-all-evidence-on-antisemitism-a4059106.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30545824

theres so much more where that came from, Ken Livingstone, etc etc.

Lets also be absolutely clear that whataboutery (ie, look at the Tories, they are bad too) is utterly irrelevant in the discussion of whether or not the Labour Party has an institutional problem with racism against Jews

Whataboutery is irrelevant to the discussion about whether or not the Labour party has this problem. Labour shouldn't be the only party held to account for it though. No political party should have problems with racism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me­rseyside-30545824 - there doesn't appear to be any links between this disgusting behaviour and Labour party members.

Yeah, she receives anti semitism from members of the public a's well as her local constituency Labour Party.
Lucky Luciana

Well, I mean, anyone can post a collection of links, but a long list of links isn't proof of an existence of a problem if the linked articles don't contain any evidence. I read through the articles posted and in that BBC article there is no way to prove, or even an accusation, that the 2,500 Anti-Semitic messages were from her local constituency Labour Party.

Seriously? What about the other articles then?

I don't think it's controversial to want concrete evidence of rampant antisemitic abuse, as it has been described. I make no apologies for abuse that has occurred either. I'm not even a bloody Labour supporter.

For an interesting background read on the subject I strongly recommend this article...

[https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/04/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-party]

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-institutional-racism-in-my-local-labour-party/ - it seems that key information has been left of this article about the reasoning behind the Jewish Labour Movement being stripped of an award - evident if you read some of the comments. Is this therefore an example of antisemitism in Labour?

https://labourlist.org/2019/02/jewish-labour-movement-zero-tolerance-for-labour-antisemitism-little-has-changed/ - it looks like the Labour party have failed the JLM

On further reflection. I don't think anyone wants me posting inane reactions to articles. But the manner in which this whole issue has been reported seems, to me at least, to have become a stick with which to beat Corbyn. Yes there are issues with antisemitism and Labour, which is wrong, as it is for any political party. But the evidence that exists just doesn't seem to correlate with the unequal weighting in the press reporting the issue.

ok, maybe it is for someone who may not be Jewish(?) and hasn't followed this issue in depth for years. But as a Jew who has followed this closely and, like many other Jews (of course not all and I don't speak for everyone) but:

1. As a general community it is clear that we feel attacked and many people do not feel that they can vote Labour because it is not a friendly place to be as a Jew. That seems to be greeted with a great shrug from many people who bizarrely simultaneously define themselves as 'For the Many not the Few'. Shameful.
   
2. Saying that the press unequally weight it as an issue is majorly problematic. You must be aware of the antisemitic trope that Jews control the media right? So is it the Jews who are behind this devious unequal weighting in the media? Whats the reason for it? Why are the media controlling Jews so hellbent on attacking Corbyn? Or does it just plain not exist and race hate towards Jews is a grave problem that should be given as much airtime as possible
   
3. Why can't people just believe us and support us instead of telling us to prove ourselves first? It is not acceptable usually to go around telling other minorities that 'actually, no you are not the subject of race hate, stop being hyperbolic'. That would be unacceptable to other minorities so why to Jews? It was a major finding in the Stephen Lawrence case that recognised that minorities have the right and are always best placed to define their racism, due to the insidiousness and blurred, undefinable lines that are often inherent in racism, so why is this not applied to us?
   

Agreed. I expect it of the self serving types who join the Tory party but for reasons I hold the Labour Party to a higher ethical standard because, fundamentally, they are committed to social justice and equal opportunity.

I have no arguments for 1 and 3, because I don't think there are any.

But I think it is not an exaggeration to say that Corbyn has had a much harder time in the press in general than the Conservatives have, on any issue.

And I don't think that any kind of conspiracy is behind that, just the fact that he is not very popular, and that he has made no effort to make himself more popular. Which is partly admirable and partly pig-headed and short-sighted.

But it has also meant that where criticism is due, such as Labour's handling of the Anti-Semitism, both real and perceived in the party, there has not been a lot of perspective - e.g. with Hodge's accusations, or with the anti-racism activist who said an MP he did not know was Jewish was working "hand-in-hand with the media."

committed to social justice and equal opportunity.

Hahah omg that's the funniest thing you've written today!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/labour-mp-ruth-george-israel-funding-independent-group-luciana-berger

Ruth George, the MP for High Peak, withdrew the comment and said she had no intention of invoking a conspiracy theory, when she responded to someone asking whether it was appropriate to say the seven departing MPs were “Israelis”.

The MP had written on Facebook: “Support from the State of Israel, which supports both Conservative and Labour ‘Friends of Israel’, of which Luciana [Berger] was chair, is possible and I would not condemn those who suggest it, especially when the group’s financial backers are not being revealed.

FFS.

^ Corbyn bashing from the right wing press, no evidence of institutional racism from a Labour Party member...move along

Sorry - are you referring to the Guardian as the right wing press, or have I misread?

Sorry, that was me being sarcastic