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Chuka Umunna, MP for Streatham, says the current parties are part of the problem, not the solution. “It is time we dumped this country’s old-fashioned politics,” he says. The UK needs a political party “fit for the hear and now” and the “first step in leaving the tribal politics behind”.
Finally, a party beyond ideology, for people who believe in nothing but their own rhetoric.
I'm sure Blair and Lord Sugar will sidle along soon enough and try to get in on the act.
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I think the focus should be on holding to account the people and the party who put us in this position
This. But later.
rather than suggesting that the Labour leadership's circumspection is why we are where we are.
Labour's circumspection is more why they are where they are now. The lack of a willingness to engage on any key points re: brexit hasn't really helped the broader political conversation. Nor has corbyn's reluctance to come out and admit he was and remains pro-brexit, as the pro-remain/anti tory vote lent him a lot of good will last general election. And honestly, how the Lib Dems have failed so miserably to capitalise on any of this as a pro-remain party is baffling.
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All of the Lib Dem’s that were any good fucked off after the shafting they got in government. There’s a fair few of them in the anti brexit campaigns, from what I hear, but the rump that’s left in proper politics are the ones that are useless centerist dad types.
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Really? There's not many political parties that have a entire Wikipedia article on the subject;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party
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To me the Labour Party is split thus:
Faction 1 - the plp centre. They say listen to the electorate - we need policies closer to the centre to get elected (like miliband tried and failed).
Faction 2- the membership. Let's be bold and put out what we wish to do, however "radical" the msm describe it to be. (Like Corbyn did and also failed, but failed significantly less).Brexit just fucks this up more, because to be elected like faction 1 want , we need to actually Brexit.
A people's vote where we stay in actually won't help that, it'll just piss people off more. And in the meantime, more homeless people die.
No one else wants to be leader of the Labour Party yet, so we all need to pull together under this one, as moaning about it gets more press than the actual policies. -
Since when is asking for proof a sarcastic denial? I am not a Corbyn supporter but good effort.
I live overseas and tried to follow the antisemitism issue and saw evidence of several incidents which appeared isolated and without significant response from the party. I thought perhaps a report had shown that the problem was endemic, rife or systematic. Nothing I saw showed it as some have phrased it on this thread and I wondered what I had missed. How dare I.
I guess asking simple questions of proof of significant claim just gets you bile from @andyp etc. So much for the tolerant left/centre/delete as appropriate.
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You're not a Corbyn supporter, fine, I take that back. You were sarcastic though :) The tone of my post escalated the petty tribalism that is at the root of the problem, so I apologise for that.
Records of the antisemitic hate mail, death threats and cries of traitor directed at Berger and others are not available on-line. Twitter in particular is a hive of this kind of activity. It comes from the right as well as the left; Diane Abbot has been subjected to the same thing, but People don't question her, and demand proof. Here is one example from yesterday's fallout, which was swiftly deleted.
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Threats that she would be deselected, warnings that the pro-Corbyn Momentum group would be “watching” her, and accusations that she was a “paid-up Israeli lobby operative” engaging in “faux anti-Semite outrage” were at the gentler end of the scale.
Other messages suggested she kill herself so that “an actual Labour MP can take your place.”
On social media, Corbyn supporters accused Berger of “disgracefully smearing” the Labour leader and suggested that, despite photographic evidence, it was a “lie” that she had received police protection.
On the eve of Holocaust Memorial Day last month, it was announced that Labour had readmitted without punishment a former MP it suspended last August who had said that he had lost “respect and empathy for the Jewish community and their historic suffering … due to what they and their Blairite plotters are doing to my party.”
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I edited it because I thought it was too strong and uncivil, even if this is lfgss.
But I am incredulous that anyone can think that Labour doesn’t have a problem with anti-semitism. That a party that is meant to be progressive and anti-racist has allowed this issue to fester is shameful, and shows a lack of leadership.
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The kind of shit that people in Luciana Berger's constituency were coming out with is horrifying and shameful.
Anti-Semitism is one of those things, like rape culture, that is presumably much easier to dismiss if you're someone it doesn't directly impact.
But I think it's quite important not to throw around accusations at people quite easily- Margaret Hodge's claim that Corbyn is an anti-Semite is definitely a "citation needed" moment.
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Here, for example, is a citation to the contrary, which I find more convincing than a poorly-judged liking of an anti-Semitic mural.
tbc
bjf
Tonts
croft
William.
punkture
user800813590210
andyp
n3il
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Posted by
@johnnyhotdog
Brexit has obviously posed a massive issue for Labour, and exposed how dangerous it is to have a membership and body of voters that are hugely split.
They had two options, either of which would have had huge consequences:
Take a clear stance on Brexit, despite the fact that it was a Conservative policy, to solve an internal Conservative conflict. In doing so, you choose who you alienate: your urban, metropolitan, liberal membership, who voted Remain, or your traditional, perhaps more socially conservative small-town Labour voters, whose position have felt a lot more precarious and who may have voted Leave fearing a further shift in their position. You could suggest, for example, that they made the wrong decision because they didn't know what they were doing, and see if they thank you for this in the next election.
Take a woolier stance on Brexit, suggesting that it's the Tories' problem to fix, and that either way, the country in government in the UK is likely to make more of a difference to a lot of people's lives than whether we are in or out of the EU.
Lots of people find it really hard to see the benefit or attraction of option 2, and lots of middle class urban Labour supporters don't see the downside of taking a clear stance on Remaining, which is also understandable.
But Labour taking option 2 worked quite well in the general election.
I don't think Labour are doing the right thing now, because I don't know what the right thing is. The problem all comes down to the fact that we had the referendum in the first place, and I think the focus should be on holding to account the people and the party who put us in this position, rather than suggesting that the Labour leadership's circumspection is why we are where we are.