EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Does the route matter?

Or to put it another way - are political stances less valid if they're arrived upon a different way?

That the Labour leadership have been complicit...

Genuine question: where is the evidence of this?

I repeatedly see Corbyn say anti-semitism is unacceptable, and read reports that the party have taken action in relation to complaints, expelling members. I do not want to deny a problem where it may exist, but I suspect that there's an aspect of this that is whipped up by the press and has become an easy way to criticise Labour.

I've not really seen much abuse (but I'm not on Twitter, so maybe that's why). But there will always be assholes. I don't think people being upset/questioning the timing of the move is abuse.

Look upthread and you can see them be called arsewipes, cretins and helmets, that's from three separate posts.

Which has probably been said about every other MP in parliament.

Every MP in parliament has probably been subjected to some verbal abuse, yes

entirely acceptable to describe people that make specific choices to ensure the neediest people in the country enjoy tory fuckery in perpetuity.

but yeah - their fee-fees, that's the ditch we should all die in.

"Subjected to verbal abuse" is quite a different thing to "somebody insulting them in a thread on a website they probably never heard of".

You do realise you are one of those people?

Your shouty, arrogant insults to anyone who doesn't exactly agree with your point of view is exactly why loads of people think that the left have a problem with abusive shouty people, and are thereby put off.

Or think of it another way - when has shouting insults at anyone ever convinced them that you're right?

Fair point, and yeah there is a difference. But also naive to think that the level of discourse generally isn't part of the same issue. Is it just less bad if it's here rather than Twitter? I don't know, to be honest

of course i realise it, that was the point of the post.

do keep up.

the tone policing isn't a strong look either.

No, I mean you're one of the people who are partly responsible for putting people off voting labour, and thereby "ensuring that the neediest people in the country enjoy their Tory fuckery in perpetuity".

my brother now has a future of more ideologically justified cuts to his living allowance to look forward to on top of the recent shitcanning of his primary carer's (my mother) transport allowance thanks to these spineless fucks, so yeah i do disagree with them. very fucking strongly.

if anyone is put off by voting labour because of some shouty cockend on an internet fixie bike forum i'm gonna go ahead and presume they were not really ever considering it in the first place.

it's more likely that people will be put off voting labour on account of the venal, self interested backstabbing that the 'moderates' have proven themselves devotees of in recent memory.

Is there any area of your life where you don't believe everybody else is wrong?

your undeniable sexiness.

Of course you are. Why listen to what people are saying when you can just decide you know best anyway? There's no such thing as floating voters anyway, that's why every election gives exactly the same result

you motherfuckers can shill for these tory enablers all day long, i know where my allegiances lie.

Funny thing is, if I actually wanted the tories to stay in power I'd be delighted there were people like you out there alienating people in the name of the labour party.

How do you feel about 7 MPs having left the party? Which is actually what's news here.

The official statement from the Tories makes it quite clear how they feel.

if you genuinely think that my shitty opinions carry more weight than the objectively observable misery that has been perpetuated by the tories, once again i suggest you were either not arguing in good faith or you really haven't been paying attention.

anyway. back on topic.

What IS a socialist?

The UK conversation seems to be "you don't worship Corbyn you are not a socialist those are all blairitis" to "Corbyn is a commie".

There are socialists that heavily criticize Corbyn for this unwillingness to help improve the EU (the UK veto could do so much) and the lack of internationalism (the door must be closed according to him, tx mate...)

Those ones don't seem to be that economically left-wing to me, don't get me wrong. But I am not so convinced of Corbyn either. David Lammy on the other hand... :)

No, I just think that if you think you can abuse everyone who doesn't agree with everything you say and not put some people off then it's you that hasn't been paying attention.

Anyway, as you say, let's get back to the main topic so you can find some new comments to vent your swearing words at

who have i abused that hasn't agreed with me other than a bunch fucking politicos? have i abused you? hmm?

Is the choice between "be a terrible person or support Corbyn"?

If so, and I'm willing to believe that FPTP means exactly this, then 48% of the country are disenfranchised with regards to the most important political decision of our generation.

I don't believe that it's that binary, there must be a route forwards that actually aligns with a desire to have strong public services, robust taxation, and a functioning economy.