US Politics

Well, if Trump is going to go down (who knows how likely that is), I think it is very likely that Pence will go down with him.

Religious/irreligious - the difference? Intolerance would probably be the common ground, whether by race or religion.
I’m thinking of giving up reading the news as my addiction to it depresses me daily.
I try to teach my daughter right from wrong but the lines seem to be very blurry now. Heads of state, who should set an appropriate standard, are now populous figures and seem beyond what I consider ‘normal’ people. Voting for personality rather than substance is now the norm. Where did it all go wrong? X-Factor, Big Brother, etc
I’m old and grumpy and the world is going to shit ....

My personal view is that everything went wrong after 9/11 (and the way the West responded to it). Once facts are overlooked, by entire governments, in order to restore some kind of 'justice', and countries invaded and regime-change forced, nothing else if off the table. Suddenly torture et al is OK, and all this is instigated by heads of state, so why wouldn't people think everything else is perfectly acceptable? But again, this is very much IMHO.

Derail ends

Religious/irreligious - the difference?

Sincere desire to get us to the Rapture as rapidly as possible, with nuclear fire the preferred route.

Err, Pence will pardon him...

Not if Pence is mired in the same shit.

He won't be, trust...

Plausible deniability will be his defence...

The thing is, I think it is possible that there is evidence that Pence knew that Flynn was meeting with Russia and then lied about it.

Obviously this is in the realms of total speculation but I think that Pence might be one of the sealed indictments and might end up going to the block first.

Or both get off "Scott Free". We will find out in due course

I assume impeachment would disbar Trump from running in 2020 so, assuming we make it that far under a Pence administration, how strong is the likelihood of a change of governing party? Are the Republican career nutters electable, or will they have to find another ex-gameshow host to keep the Trumpbase engaged?

Roger Stone charged with witness tampering and obstruction of justice.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5694700/Stone-Indictment.pdf

Not if Pence is mired in the same shit.

I think Mueller needs to take Pence out first, otherwise Trump resigns, Pence is President, Pence pardons Trump.

That's sort of where I'm going with this. TS is right in that Pence intends to stay squeaky clean, it's just that I think it is very unlikely that he is.

It's a shame the net has to be so big to fit him in that it takes this long for said net to fully close around him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/25/roger-stone-trump-ally-arrested-on-seven-charges

Just read the indictment. It is alleging that there is firm evidence that the Trump campaign directly colluded with Wikileaks over the Clinton email releases. Probably the biggest bombshell yet.

Specifically, it states that Stone notified the Trump campaign of the fact Wikileaks had the hacked Clinton emails months before the release and that the Trump campaign worked with Wikileaks and Stone to ascertain if there was more dirt coming from the original source of those emails (possibly/probably Russia).

Also:

"After the July 22, 2016 release of stolen DNC emails by [wikileaks], a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE about any additional releases and what other damaging information [wikileaks] had regarding the Clinton Campaign." Interesting use of passive voice

And a reference to (possibly) Farage.

The actual indictment was here a minute ago and seems to have disappeared. How come?

Roger Stone was second choice in this week's Fantasy Indictment League on the Mueller, She Wrote podcast.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documen­ts/5694700/Stone-Indictment.pdf

thanks.

Just noticing that third pick in the Fantasy Indictment League was the "man in the Embassy" "the head of Organization 1".

The Farage involvement is set out in another podcast by the Untold team at Dial M for Mueller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ2BMEMiO9s

Pence pardons Trump.

POTUS can only pardon federal convictions, not state convictions. I think New York state are highly likely to seek prosecution of many of those involved.

Not sure it is Farage. Suspect Person 2 is either Credico or Corsi

ooof if trump goes down and takes farage with him that would be worthy of having a forum bash somewhere to celebrate surely