Indoor climbing

They sound ok, try them without the socks and see how you get on?

My new LaSportiva Skwama are utterly agonising though at the moment so I'm hoping they do ease in a bit. Has anyone tried wearing them into a hot shower and then letting them dry on? Internet says this helps?

Mile End! Come hang with the Queen Mary Uni Climbing Club!

They sound a bit big to me to be honest. I'd never wear socks with climbing shoes...

Does that still run? I was club president 2008 - 2009. (#csb)

'Agonising' sounds like they're way too small

Just wore and climbed without socks. Lovely fit. Here’s to many more climbs

... if I were you, I would be aiming for somewhere between the 'semi-aggressive' and closer to 'regular' fit without socks. So notice a slight curl to the toes from being pushed a little into the end of the shoe. You are ideally looking for zero dead space. It's a fine balance. This gives the area structure and eliminates any movement between foot and shoe which would make it harder to stick to footholds when weighting on to your big toe. Sounds like you could go a half size down.

More reading:

https://en.paperblog.com/the-definitive-climbing-shoe-faq-1737215/

https://mountainequipment.com/blogs/mountain-equipment-blog/understanding-rock-shoes-shape-and-structure

Questions to ask yourself: Do I have a wide forefoot? large or narrow heel? Do I have high volume or low volume feet overall? What is my general foot shape?

The answers to these will dictate which shoes work for you. And then you test by trying lots on and comparing. When I put on the right model in the right size for the first time there's a real 'AHA!' moment!

I've had 'technical' (tight) fitting shoes before. They made me a bit miserable - especially once you're outside, when you have to wear them for a lot longer (and potentially walk down in them).

I'd always err on the side of comfort, although I'll happily admit I don't exactly push my grades too much nowadays :)

Yeah, I'm actually president for this year haha. Club climbing 3 times a week, still going strong!

I'm thinking about going to Fontainbleau in April, for three weeks. Looking for info on where to stay, preferably someplace where I could meet other climbers. Either camping or roof.

"standard" option is camping outside Milly la foret - it's where the boulderbus stays, and it's well located for Roche au sabot + gorge au chats as well as the areas with the names that are numbers (that I can never remember).

Usually quite a few climbers around there and it's quite nice.

I stayed at Fontaineblhostel Hostel & Camping (in the hostel bunks), it was lovely.
The owner is a super lovely man who has plenty of mats, books, and knowledge to dish out.
Whilst I was there I got to hitch around with some American climbers with a car, as I was just travelling on bike.
The hostel is 5mins bike from the climbing at L'Elephant which is great.

Yep, camped there a few times. Great facilities, clean toilets and showers etc.

Three weeks would be a bit hardcore though.

Yeah 3 weeks would be a stint.

I'd consider trying two different places over 3 weeks, as there's so much in the forest that you could really get under the skin of a couple of different areas. Would be annoying if you'd planned to move far away and just found a project, though...

Yeah they're definitely "aggressive fit"... I had them fitted by a chap in Edinburgh climbing centre so alledgedly they're a good fit? I'll give them another few tries before I pack them in and go again...

Thanks @andyfallsoff @platypus @Well_is_it ! I might reconsider the 3 weeks part :)

There's this sales chap at my local gym who's always telling casuals to buy their shoes two sizes too small. What works for them doesn't work for everyone! But you might be ok, Skwama's seem to stretch at least half a size over time

Thank goodness, I feel like they're going to be great once I can get used to them.

They sound too small? How long have you worn them for? My Skwamas were sort of very uncomfortable-not-quite-painful at first but after only 1-2 sessions they became very comfy. unlined leather so I've found they do stretch a tonne. But then they shrink again when I wash them so it's kind of back and forth all the time lol

In and around Milly is always a good bet. Also airbnbs in Barbizon can be nice too if you're sharing with people? I've always found that being in or next to the towns makes stuff like getting supplies and food so much easier.

I wish I had the time to go for 3 weeks! Have you picked any mega projects for yourself yet?!

I'm probably going alone, with some friends coming over for half a week or so in between. Airbnb sounds quite comfortable, but I'm also keen to meet some other climbers. I'll see about projects when I get there I guess!

Has anyone ever climbed at Stone Farm?

I've only worn them twice now and I actually do suspect the initial discomfort was from a still somewhat tender post-op toenail so I'm prepared to give them some more time! I'd also completely forgotten about the difference well trimmed toenails make in a climbing shoe so fingers crossed they'll work out ok!

I used to work in a climbing shop selling shoes and I've been climbing over a decade, I'll give my 2p on the issue.
Tight shoes are necessary for performance but performance may not be necessary. A tight fit negates any movement in the toe, allowing more precision and the ability to stand on small footholds - a looser fit will have the shoe roll round the toe and slip off. If a shoe is fitted well, and downsized correctly, they will perform better for a longer period of their lifespan - if a shoe becomes too baggy as it stretches you will struggle to use it on smaller features or where more pressure/precision is needed. This may not actually be a problem at all depending on the type of climbing you are doing, or at a beginner level.

Another factor for comfort is the stiffness of the sole. A shoe with a harder and stiffer sole unit will support the foot more, requiring less effort to keep your toes on a small hold. And in the same way, a shoe with very soft rubber will support the foot less and may end up hurting your feet if you're spending a lot of time standing on small footholds as you have to work harder to keep your foot flat. Harder rubber tends to be more durable but less sticky and is less sensitive.
Shoes designed for all day comfort like this tend to be flat.

Shoes that have a downturn have a curved sole, are designed to force the toes into the end of the shoe for a tight fit. This helps transfer more force into the toes when standing on holds, but obviously decreases their comfort levels if you're standing in them all day. This isn't a problem if you're bouldering or sport climbing and are able to take the shoes off in between climbs and you aren't spending too long on your feet. Downturned shoes are suited to more overhanging climbing, with flat shoes being better for vertical and slab climbing.

They need to be tight in the right way, if they're tight because they don't suit the shape of your feet, they'll just be uncomfortable.
The fit should match the type of shoe. There's not much point in downsizing a pair of comfort shoes so they're mega tight (and uncomfortable), and no point in splashing £140 on some fancy aggressive shoes if they're not tight (IMO).
Getting used to climbing shoes is both important and necessary for improvement.
If you're just starting out, you'll probably benefit from having shoes that you can wear for longer because they're more comfortable rather than the negligible performance gain of a tighter shoe (for a beginner). You'll get better at climbing by being able to climb for longer.

Despite all this, it's still really hard to get it right and trial and error always comes into play - a frustrating prospect considering the cost of shoes. It's always a trade off of different factors and most climbers end up with different shoes for different purposes. Picking a pair of shoes to suit your needs is half the battle.

I'm breaking in a couple pairs of shoes at the moment - one of which I was on the verge of selling because I thought they were too tight but having endured with them I'm now really happy. It's taken ages and been painful. I've also only really started to get it right in the last few years (and I regret having not tried downsizing earlier) and I've found that shoes have a much better performance lifespan when fitted this way. I've also changed from exclusively wearing 5.10s to having a couple pairs of Scarpas. 5.10s seem to be made pretty cheaply these days, the last few pairs I've had have all fallen apart.

/csb

Agree. Also Scarpas +1