Roberts restoration

Picked this up last week. As far as I can tell it was built in May 1984 (serial number reads 84517). The rear brake bridge is stamped with the characteristic 'R'. Tubing is unknown but is probably Columbus of some sort.

Sellers pics:

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It's in a bit of a state. Front dropouts need replacing and it hasn't got any cable guides. Paint is also very rough so first job will be to strip that and check it over.

Front dropouts need replacing

What's happened to them?

:(

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Ouch! Turn them into fancy spanners ;)

How /why did they end up in that state?

Someone filed them is what the previous owner told me. To what end I don't know.

Heresy, heresy I tell you!

Lovely fillet brazing, those stiletto seat stays and that seat stay seat tube junction -rubhands.gif.

it hasn't got any cable guides

That's a sure sign of a good bike, so don't mess with them !

You're kidding right? Better get the pitchforks out...

Like for like? Or stainless?

New dropouts acquired.

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You should take it to Colourtech in Crayford for a re-spray. They will also be able to fit your new dropouts - and the man who does their frame repairs is frame-building legend Geoff Roberts, who may well have built your frame in the first place.

Thanks, I'll drop them an email.

More fun and games. Headset is out but the cups had been shimmed to make them fit. Head tube wall is extremely thin.

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Ah, might not all be bad. Check what headset was in there as JIS and ISO are different - one is 30.0mm and the other 30.2mm [I think]. It's not the end of the world if it's shimmed, the head tube on my Russian bike is 30.4 and I have a Stronglight headset with a 0.1mm shim all the way round. Once it's pressed in it's fine.

That's interesting. Measured the headset at about 30.2mm. Head tube is all over the place. I think it's possible to have a sleeve brazed in the head tube then reamed out to the correct size so might go with that.

@DrJohn some more photos for you. Bottom bracket shell appears to be one of the original Cinelli 'SCM' ones (as opposed to CCM). Struggling to find when these were in production.

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Seat stays

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Cat and pigeons spring to mind ! I've not seen a Roberts number like that - i.e large numerals, and not in the same position as it is on mine. Roberts stamps, early and late, tend to be small numerals: where's my thinking cap ? Re the brake cable brazings, you never know original customer may have specified not to have them. Late frames, like my fillet brazed one tend to have a sleeve type braze on, one under each end of the top tube leaving a bare wire between.

I'd ignore the number on the bb. It looks to have been added by hand.

It's also possible that the stops have been removed at some point. Hard to tell without first stripping the paint.

You may be right there, I was going to suggest you strip off the paint in a few key areas...frame archaeology so to speak !

Done a bit of digging :)

All is revealed.

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Tricky, which Roberts frame numbering can be: post 1979 they - apparently - changed to a six digit numbering system but deviated from that when building frames for the trade ! Five digits would suggest pre 1979...I think it is early and a Penge frame but sticking my neck out. My two early frames have three digit numbers and are Sydenham frames.

Based on what's been said in the Roberts thread previously, I'd interpreted it as year/month/frame number (of that month). Does that sound right to you?

Sadly not an exact science but I don't think it is a 1984 frame - I think it's April 1978, as Roberts changed frame numbering to six digits sometime after 1979 - that was the year Chas took over.