Paint and build a front racked town bike

So, I bought a frame cheap on ebay. It wasn't quite what I was hoping, but that's ok, because before it arrived I also bought my Duell Milano SL frame, and it is a dream.

So now I have a decently constructed, but not special, steel frame with nice heart cut out lugs and nothing to do with it. It's orange. According to the seller (and the colour under the dodgy looking Holdsworth vinyl lettering), it used to be read, but it's really faded.

I have my doubts about whether it really is a Holdsworth, the vinyl lettering is not convincing. I have my doubts about whether it's really 531, there are no badges,although the tubing does appear to be butted and it weighs about the right amount.

I don't feel like arguing it out with the ebay seller - I saw the photos before I bought it, my purchase was rash.

This might be the end of the story. Maybe sell it for a couple of quid if I could be bothered.

Except...

Except that I've always wanted to have a frame painted. And every time I've got hold of a "ratty" frame that was decent enough to spend on repainting, the painters have talked me out of it because the frame is too nice. (Infinite gratitude to the gang at the Hackney Peddler for refusing to powder coat my Duell. I don't know was I was thinking!)

I have it looked over by LBS, they agree that it is "well made", but otherwise totally unremarkable and unlikely to be identifiable. I finally have my paint project frame!

Now, powder coating was a stupid idea. I should paint this thing myself, that's where the satisfaction comes from, right?

One remaining problem. The frame was sold with a Tange fork, which is... less than underwhelming, and also from completely the wrong era (no lugged crown, recessed bolt brake when the rear is a nutted, and generally of poor quality).

So, back on the shelf while I look around for a fork. Luckily, after some scouring of various places, I was chatting to @HerrJ and he was able to provide a cheap 531 Raleigh fork with a long enough steerer (finding a 21cm steerer was a serious limit on my available options!) It was in good mechanical condition, but poor paint and no one was going to miss it.

I decide to do the fork fully, from start to finish first, as I haven't handled a spray can since I used one to prime wargaming miniatures some two decades ago... I want a good finish, and I imagine I have a lot to learn and will likely mess it up totally at least once, I don't want to invest too much in each attempt til I know what works!

I learn a few things about the mechanical removal of paint. It's harder work than I anticipated. A dremel type tool with a flexy extension and some fine sandpaper rollers get the job done in the end. I know using a machine is a bit of a risk, but this fork is solid and I have a steady hand. It would have taken some effort to remove enough metal to weaken the bugger significantly. It appears I neglected to take a picture at this stage, so I've attached one of the second time I've taken it back to the bare metal (spoiler alert: not everything went well the first time!

I also do a lot of research on the internets and decide to try the spray.bike stuff. It talks a good talk. Let's see if it can walk one too.

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Stepping back a little bit, the aim here is to build a geared, flat barred run-around with a pizza rack and possibly even a wooden crate fixed on it.

I'd like something which I'm not precious about which can carry my bag or shopping without my having to take panniers. Also something which is a little bit more upright and leisurely pootling to work or the shops.

So, things that are certain:

• No drop bars (flat, riser and sweep back all to be evaluated)
  
• Pizza rack (will have to be QR/axle + brake mounted)
  
• Some gears
  
  • must be shifted at the bars, thumb or bar-end could be feasible depending on the bar choice
    
  • strongly prefer indexed
    
• Not an expensive build (e.g. I won't be buying a brand new 105 or above groupset for it!)
  
• Painted myself in a classic style, probably 70s british, head and seat-tube banding, and maybe a little extra flair if I can get decent results with more complex masks.
  
  

The main thing that is unclear still, and which I'd love suggestions for is the groupset.

Given the era and colours I'm going for with the paint, it should be silver. I have a few parts in the bits box which might be good, but nothing like a full group.

I've got a Shimano 600 crankset (the plain pantographed one, which I thing looks stunning in its simplicity)
I've got spare front+read Arabesque mechs, shifters and headset, but I don't think they'll suit the crankset and I'd like indexed gears at least. Were there ever 5 speed indexed shifters?
I've got some lovely svelte Mirage brakes, but they're single pivot, so not much stopping power for a loaded bike, and I don't want to do a Campy build, it just won't turn out cheap enough.

I've always though the DA-7400 series was stunning looking, plus it can be indexed :)

One potential plan is to get 7400 mech and match them with modern 8 speed Tourney / Claris / Sora thumb-shifters. Does anyone know whether the pitch or pull ratios have changed over the years. I've been reading, but I'm possibly more confused than when I started. I know the shifters will quite match the elegance of the rest of the bike(!), but I think I can live with it.

The other option in that vein is to get indexed bar end shifters, and some seriously swept back (to the point that the handles run almost parallel to the top tube) bars. But I'm concerned that the steering would be super twitchy when loaded at the front. How important to people find things like stem length and bar sweep with a loaded pizza rack?

I'll post some pics of the frame later. I'm trying hard to find some of it in the state I received it, but the ebay listing is dead cos it's too old and I can't find the ones I thought I took. There will also be the odyssey of the first attempt fork painting and its unfortunate end to come to get up to date on the project.

This is my first CP thread, hope I'm not making it too long already, but I wanted a record, and for anyone considering spray.biek to have a decent experience to refer to (which will come later...) because most of the ones I found online didn't go in to the kind of detail I was interested in.

If you've got this far, thanks for reading!

Further research suggests that I need to be starting at 9 speed DA parts to match a modern shifter's cable pull. And DA-4700 bar end shifters seem to be... well, rarer than I'm going to invest in this build.

According to https://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html (all hail Sheldon), Shimano adopted the modern pull ratio in the 6 speed 600EX, but waited until the 7700 to put it on the Dura Ace groups because they didn't want to obsolete their early high-end customer's investments straight away, even though they had found out quite quickly that the cable pull could do with being a bunch longer.

Could be worse, DA-7700 is a good looking set, but not as cool as those 7400 rear derailleurs.

According to Sheldon's stats, shouldn't you be able to run a 7400 RD with a 7700 (or other) shifter on an 8speed setup?

Excellent, good intro to a build thread!

@essdi, thanks!

@slothy, I was thinking to get a recent low-end shifter, as I don't expect to find thumb shifters for the old Dura Ace gear (bar end, maybe, but that would dictate a lot about my bar choices)

You might be right, if 7700 counts as "any 9 speed shifter" and it's used with an 8 speed cassette. That's interesting, because I could get 9 speed Sora or Claris shifters. I assume you lock off the extra click with the min or max screw at the derailleur. (edited this paragraph after reading Sheldon table AGAIN)

I guess I should look at Ultegra/600 series stuff as well, as it had the current standard ratio from waaay before DA. Few of them were proper silver though.

Aside: How come 7400 rear mechs are still available in good condition? Was it something to do with the shape of the body of the 7700 and later that maybe sticks out and makes them more prone to getting mangled against a wall? Or perhaps it's because 7400 is obsolete and so lots were replaced as part of an upgrade and haven't seen much use since. It's odd, there's a really marked different in condition when you search ebay.

Ok, I've done some maths with some numbers I found on the Internet.

Premises:

• 8 speed cassettes space the cogs at 4.8mm to centre
  

• 9 speed cassettes space the cogs at 4.34mm

• standard shimano pull ratio is 1.7. That is, the derailleur moves 1.7mm for each 1mm the shifter pulls the cable

• old Dura Ace pull ratio is 1.9.

Therefore:

• a 9 speed shifter pulls 2.553mm of cable per click
  
• an 8 speed Dura Ace Shifter pulls 2.526mm per click
  
  

Its close, less than three hundredths of a mm per click discrepancy, but it adds up to 0.21mm of cable over 8 clicks, and with 1.9 ratio, that's closing in on half a mm out of place at the derailleur.

While clearly not ideal, that still doesn't sound like a lot. And you'd spread it so it was a quarter mm out at each end of the range...

Anyone done this? Unfortunately I don't have an 8 speed wheel (though I have some 9 speed shifters), so I'd have to invest in more than the derailleur to test it out. If it worked well, I'd expect there to be more advice available suggesting doing it.

If you’re using flat bars why not run a mtb shifter and rear mech? Probably get away with 1x even on an old mech unless you live somewhere really hilly.

My barely used 9speed lx shifter, mech and cassette were £15 total I think

Well, I got the frame primed, fork finished and decided on a group set.

Going to use 600ex parts to match the crankset, which I really love. Got brakes and rear derailleur reasonably cheap off ebay, going to use a 600ax derailleur at the front for now, because it turned up cheap on here and looks pretty cool.

I'm going to use them with a 9 speed wheel and cheap indexed thumb-shifters, the kind that were on all my childhood bikes, for saved cash and warm feels.

I had to get a little creative with the brakes, the frame and fork expect long bolts with nuts, but the 600ex brakes are from the recessed nut era. I swapped the bolts with a pair of 600 arabesque brakes from the parts bin, so pleased to find out the diameter and threading are identical! The bolt heads are chamfered at different angles, but that's it!
Also means I'm now the owner of some... unusual arabesque brakes, ready to fit to modern frame. Got almost a full group actually, I should turn the neo-retro thing on its head and use it on a modern race frame! I'd find it pretty amusing, given the arabesque set was already designed to look a decade older than it actually is.

Also got a pleasant confirmation after rubbing down the frame (damn, freshly blasted steel rusts quickly!) - the main tubes at least are stamped 531.

I'm pretty pleased with how the forks came out, planning to do the frame with head-tube and seat-tube bands, and the same dip/curve/pin-stripe motif on the stays down by the dropouts.

Still need:

• headset / stem / bars
  
• wheels and cassette
  
• a couple more still, dry, above 10 degree, free hours of daylight, so I can finish the paint!
  

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Squeezed the frame painting in between hailstorm today. Not ideal conditions, but I'm pretty pleased with it. The pinstriping isn't nearly as sharp as the fork, because I didn't flat the base coat down sufficiently. Time and patience ran short.

Shocking photo/lighting, I'll take some better ones in daylight (next time it's light and I'm at home at the same time. Winter. sigh)

Photo

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looking good! any head badge plans?

Thanks! I'm glad I took the time to mask the lug cutouts, I think they set it off. It's supposed to have an elephant head like the tops of the forks, but I didn't have time to make the mask today.

Or, it is (purportedly) a Holdsworth, and I've seen replica pewter badges.

That looks great! A level of detail you don't normally see on DIY paint jobs.

Superb

Everything is here! Excitement building...

Nothing happens tonight though, it's Friday, and I don't have a headset press or crown race fitting tube, so nothing apart from the bottom bracket can go on til I've been down to LBK tomorrow.

Oh, and I stupidly bought the wrong nittos. 23.8mm bar diameter, everything to go on them is 22. They were probably the most expensive single component too! Facepalm. Might be up for grabs here soon...

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Looks good. Mudguards for winter or is that sacrilege to suggest...?

Most likely, yes, though they will have to be steel!

I may have exaggerated when I said "everything", I meant "enough to make it function basically like a bike".

Also missing is the front rack which is (ostensibly) the whole point of the build...

Also (just realised this minute) I've run out of downtube mounted cable stops. So it will only function as a highly impractical 42-11 single speed until the gear cables get hooked up, unless I steal some form a working one...

Heartbreak. The steerer is 3mm too short!

Nice paint job. How did you do it? As for the fork can't you get something like a low stack headset?

Thanks! Couple of cans of spray.bike and some hand cut masks.

Looked at low stack headsets today, but it would be a stretch to make it up. The steerer is actually more like 5mm too short. I think I'll switch to some other forks I have lying around which are... 5mm longer! There's still paint in the can...

More heart brake though. I could have sworn I measured that drop before and it was ok. It isn't now though.

Rear brake might have to be downgraded to an arabesque one, they're a bit longer. Very disappointing though. This one is so beautiful!

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You could use some brake block extenders like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201359303099
I run them on one of my bikes and they work fine.

Well that is an interesting gadget! Thanks!

Or buy a dropped brake bolt?

http://thebikestand.com/vint-C-rear-drop-bolt.jpg