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I think Labour is wrong in their calculations of loss / gain and brexit voters in their area.
On what basis? A lot of ex-industrial towns which were labour strongholds voted for Brexit and a lot of them haven't changed their mind about it.
Labour coming out and opposing Brexit would trash their chances of winning in a lot of constituencies (and not just in the immediate future but further down the line as well, the lib dems show that the electorate have a long memory) and, with Corbyn in charge, it's unlikely that they're going to poach enough conservative seats to make up for that.
Blair might have been able to manage that tactic but I can't see it working at the moment.
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Love. It, some of these comments on this thread about how apparently overblown the now clear anti semitism of Corbyn and the Labour Party frankly shows how bad the situation is. Every next piece of evidence is brushed off or results in people saying that there is no evidence.
The fact that you lot couch our very proveaveable and real worries as OTT etc is genuinely scary.
It also shows that the Labour Party is very far from the party of tolerance that it once was. Its a pity that the Conservatives are just as bad so there is, for a Jew, an option between a party with an inherent problem with anti semitism, led by an anti semite and a party of Islamophibic nationalists.
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Honestly mate you're fighting a straw man here. Nobody disagrees that there have been instances of anti-semitism in the party, nor that they should be taken very seriously. It is not inconsistent with this to also argue that the issue is being weaponised by powerful forces in resistance to a growing leftist movement.
Corbyn is clearly not an antisemite. To label him such is to render the term pretty near meaningless.
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There's the problem. His quote about Zionists and not understanding English humour is a proveable case. Its the cherry on top. The guy is an anti semite.
Oh and do fuck off with the weaponisation of Labour's problems with racism. It's simple. If your party is not inherently racist and your leader isn't, then there's nothing to weaponise.
The emperor has no clothes
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The fact that you lot couch our very proveaveable and real worries as OTT etc is genuinely scary.
No, I said the comparison to Enoch Powell is completely OTT. I think calling him an existential threat is OTT as well. I agree there’s a problem. I just don’t think he’d usher in pogroms. But I recognise that it must feel very different when you’re on the receiving end, and so I’m sorry if my remarks are insensitive. It’s just that all the hyperbole is contributing to the extreme polarisation.
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Fair enough. You are right though, when you are on the receiving end and everyone marginalises it its pretty awful. And for the record I think Jonathan Sacks is right he is very far from being OTT other than perhaps forgetting to mention Nigel Farage. I didn't much like him as Chief Rabbi and much prefer Mervis but I do highly respect him.
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His quote about Zionists and not understanding English humour is a proveable case.
‘The’ zionists. In the room.
I just don’t see it as anti-semitic. It sounds like a jibe. I think he is/was pretty tired of the zionists at the meeting .... not sure how we get to the idea he hates Jews?
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/29/labour-mps-fear-brexit-voters-unfounded-study
Handful of constituencies.
As for poaching conservative seats, they gained votes last due as people tactical voted to keeps the cons out. They may lose those votes this time.
Problem is of course, as you say, that there is no guarantee either a good remain / very light brexit vision gains votes esp. not with the current scandal discussed here.
But I dont see this work either. But the party may evolve it's stance again.
Though they did put ending freedom of movement on their plans. That means no single market but perhaps they will change that stance.
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Conflating a political identity with an ethnicity is the weaponisation.
In this specific case it’s even worse politicking because the evidence shows Corbyn was refering to a specific group of people (the self-proclaimed Zionists who had earlier complained about a non-English speakers joke), not even ‘zionists’ as a movement. -
So what if he was discussing all 'Zionists' or just 'Zionists' in the room, it's what he said about them. What he said was dog whistle racism and it is clear that his reference to Zionists is one about Jews and how they aren't real Englishmen/women.
How many times do you lot need to have evidence before you stop giving him the benefit of the doubt?
Every time, the Jewish community stands up and says 'this is racism and not acceptable', the left and Labour Party then say. 'no its not give them the benefit of the doubt, its a political smear, you are being hyperbolic /OTT etc'. As if we can't understand what is racism towards ourselves and the good old patronising lot on the left need to tell us what is and isn't racism against us.
It's disgusting. The Labour Party is rotten
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I would assume that’s one of those Jewish people weren’t not supposed to listen too.
These words inspire me to take the position I do as a U.K. Jew in solidarity with the Palestinian people and desperate for justice
Clearly antisemitic!
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i posted that merely to present an opinion i thought was worth considering. the fact that yer man that wrote it is Jewish is somewhat incidental to what i understood the point he was attempting to make.
Robert Cohen's a smart guy and i enjoy reading his stuff.
caveat - i am not Jewish (although i did attend a Jewish school for some years since we lived in a predominately Jewish endz back in the colonies - not that that is of any consequence, however if you need a goyim to blow the Shofar for you come Purim, look no further) and as such, my opinion on any matter relating to the wider Jewish experience can be safely ignored, as it can on any number of topics.
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The guy is clearly not racist though, he's one of the most provably anti racist politicians around. The labour party has problems, just as everywhere else does, but rotten seems over the top when it's the same or better than other places, all those places need sorting, and yes we're specifically talking about the labour party right here, but to remove it from all context in the wider country makes it impossible for it to be anything other than perfect or rotten, and it can't be perfect when the wider country isn't, so essentially shuts down debate.
Your point about a minority group pointing out what is racism against it is good, and you're right that it often gets drowned out and "whitesplained" away, but calling something racist doesn't automatically make it so, it makes it worth scrutinizing, and looking at properly but somethings just aren't and a lot of the claims against Corbyn personally (not the wider party) are spurious at best and end up sounding like that Doc Brown song. I had a kid who was going to beat the shit out of me at school because he wanted a cig and I reluctantly offered him one of my Marlboro's, Marlboro's history with slavery apparently making this a racist act as he was black, I'm 100% sure I wasn't being racist, even through ignorance (and most tobacco has slavery origins anyway right?) but was I if he said so? -
the fact that yer man that wrote it is Jewish is somewhat incidental to what i understood the point he was attempting to make.
I disagree. Racism can be nuanced and sometimes only picked up by those it is directed at. If Jewish people feel under attack, we should listen to them. If they think their identity has been hijacked to attack Corbyn, again, we should listen. I agree though, Cohen is a smart guy regardless his background.
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About
That Corbyn fella...
Posted by
@pdlouche
has anybody else been following the amount of grief Eddie Dempsey has been getting the last few days? demonstrates quite clearly the antipathy of the anti-Corbyn mob towards the working class.