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  • Still not really a position or an answer. With Labour voters being indifferent to Brexit/remainers I still don't understand why Labour is so afraid to piss off a few leave areas. Especially as the leave voters there were mostly kippers.

    This is pure fantasy. The problem as it stands is that for remainers, Brexit is to be opposed and not understood. I've said it before here but you should realise that it is detrimental to your cause (used loosely) to ignore the legitimate concerns of those who voted to leave.

    Are you referring to that MP writing in the Indy yesterday? Where he wrote unfounded nonsense like:

    The public mood is shifting. Increasingly, Leave voters are saying Brexit is too costly, taking too long and is much more complicated than they were told and want a public vote on the deal – ideally “legitimised” with Labour’s support.

  • Where do I say that you should ignore legitimate concerns?

    I think Labour is wrong in their calculations of loss / gain and brexit voters in their area.

    Remain should not be a mandate to ignore concerns. It seems austerity and rising costs of living vs wages are key drivers.

    Everywhere from northern Ireland to England low wages and low social standing and education correlate with brexit voting. (Not much with people that want a united Ireland though) Why? Can't be just xenophobia.

    Those need to be resolved but thrashing the UK's GDP more I don't think fixes it. Therefore I prefer for labour to can the thing as they otherwise have good plans.

    I think the party is dishonest by pretending they can get a deal the Tories can't.

  • I think Labour is wrong in their calculations of loss / gain and brexit voters in their area.

    On what basis? A lot of ex-industrial towns which were labour strongholds voted for Brexit and a lot of them haven't changed their mind about it.

    Labour coming out and opposing Brexit would trash their chances of winning in a lot of constituencies (and not just in the immediate future but further down the line as well, the lib dems show that the electorate have a long memory) and, with Corbyn in charge, it's unlikely that they're going to poach enough conservative seats to make up for that.

    Blair might have been able to manage that tactic but I can't see it working at the moment.

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