Football

haha don't remind me!

Any Spurs fans want to take that one on this season? I bet we finish above you will also extend to Chelsea fans. :p

WHAT?

You think Arsenal will finish above Spurs and Chelsea?

One of them yes

Does that mean you’ll be wearing a half and half Chelsea Tottenham shirt in May?

Or March ...

Big win for Villa tonight

Means if either a Chelsea or Spurs fan wants to take on a #weartheshirt bet I’m up for it

You’ve clearly given up on Arsenal and want to see it either blue or white suits your complexity.

Despite the reliance on tv money, the way to profitability is always going to be matchday revenue, bigger the stadium you can fill, the better off you’ll be...

Not really in the Premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44850888

Bournemouth (ok, tiny ground) only got 4% of their revenue from matchday revenue last season.

But definitely in the Championship: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44981103

... as the gap between Premier League income and Championship income has widened to ~£130m.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/aug/14/david-squires-return-of-the-premier-league-season

" no......one......... was "

ha

just read that, and there are numerous quotes about how full stadiums lead to teams making a profit..

"Kieran Maguire, a football finance expert at the University of Liverpool, said that the importance of ticket sales, while overshadowed by huge broadcast deals, remains significant at the top of the sport.
Manchester United, recently ranked as the second most valuable sports franchise in the world by business magazine Forbes, brought in more than £111.6m in matchday revenue.
None of the Premier League's top five money makers - Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea - would have made a profit without matchday incomes being included."
"Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool have each expanded their ground capacity in recent years, and because they do not have benevolent owners in the same vein as Chelsea and Manchester City, matchday income is essential as a means of providing funding for investment in the playing squad in terms of both wages and transfer fees," Maguire said.
"When Liverpool expanded Anfield, a significant proportion of the new seats went to corporate partners and hospitality fans.
"This allows the club to increase its revenue per fan per match, which is an ever more important financial metric given that broadcast income is plateauing and corporate partnership deals are reaching saturation point."

also isn't the "product" that is Premier League football, tied into the fans in the stadium showing their support?

"Football Supporters' Federation chair Malcolm Clarke. Players and managers come and go, but we are always there. The reason that they can get lucrative TV deals is because the product shows the crowd, the noise, the away fans and the atmosphere - it is all part of it.
"On one level they don't need the fans because they have got so much money from broadcasters, but at another level they do need fans to keep an attractive product.
"How boring would it be to watch a Premier League game in an empty stadium?"

and also if the stadiums were empty would there be any point in merchandising/sponsorship deals in stadium

"Swans chief operating officer Chris Pearlman added matchdays also generate the "greatest amount" in merchandise sales, with in-stadium signage, local sponsorship deals and programme advertising all heavily dependant on fans attending games."

Pisti's thoughts on this would be welcome: -

pretty sure he wouldn't wear that ensemble

That's a false dichotomy, I wasn't suggesting that no fans are required. A sell-out of 40,000 fans is obviously better than no fans (for revenue, atmosphere and allure for the TV rights).

My point is that a regular sell-out of 40,000 fans might be better than 50,000 fans in a 60,000 stadium. Empty seats don't sell the product (just see how Arsenal and West Ham are slated when the empty seats are so obvious).

The major route to profitibility will probably overseas merchandise sales, hence the pre-season tours of random countries in random tournaments. This doesn't work that well for anyone outside of the top half of the Premiership.

[EDIT] For clubs with ancient/small stadiums then a new stadium (with more/nicer/better corporate facilities) will be a huge gain (but for a huge outlay), but that's not just about adding capacity. Arsenal struggle to sell out 60,000 regularly. Spurs will after the honeymoon period is over and the new stadium tourists have been and gone. Chelsea too (if they ever go through with their redevelopment).

Fulham's proposed redevelopment of the Riverside stand would be great for them as that would add capacity (another 5,000 I think) and replace the aged corporate facilities. [I'd also be very happy that it opens up the path along the riverside too.]

One of the biggest fuckups that a club can do is overestimate their regular fan base and build too big a stadium, or build it too far away. Darlington were the biggest example of this (some of the latter but mostly the former problem.)

There are also three or four types of “fans”.

1. Season ticket holders. Pay up front which is useful for clubs who have to pay off debt.

2. Regular attendees. Often members and so show financial commitment to the club albeit that the income from them comes in later.

3. Occasional attendees. These are hugely important. The divorced father who brings his kid for a birthday treat or the family from SE Asia who make a pilgrimage to the ground. Buy tickets but also (on a per trip basis) are more likely to buy tat from the club shop and more likely to buy hotdogs in the ground.

4. Corporates. Very expensive seats, catering, the works.

Chelsea’s plan was to grow the capacity by a little under 20,000. Half of these would have been corporates. Chelsea have also restricted the number of STs to encourage particularly overseas one off attendees through easy purchase of tickets via supporters clubs throughout the world.

That said. Television money is where it’s at.

Chelsea fans I know say it's got much easier in recent years to get hold of occasional tickets. What's your experience?

That said. Television money is where it’s at.

Indeed. And I think the great #stopfootball rebalancing will be when one (or a few) of the big English clubs tell the Premier League to get fucked, break away and negotiate their own individual TV deals (like Barca and Real have).

I personally still think it's madness that England has 4 professional divisions, without sugar daddy investors coming in to periodically bail out lower league clubs we should only have 2 (fully professional) leagues.

I have season tickets and so get all home games. Away tickets are now impossible. Used to have away season tickets and when I first gave them up could get London games easily. Now they go in seconds. The £30 a ticket Scheme is good but has led to huge demand and also to touting. It is depressing to go to places like Bournemouth, as I did a couple of years ago where the away allocation is little more than 1000 and find five people sitting in a row in front of me who, it turns out are from S Africa and this is their first game and they got the tickets off an on line tout.

I generally get my aways through the network of friends and friends of friends in which there is a very strong face value rule.

At home games there is a ticket exchange and so often possible to pick up extras via that should they be needed.

Still loads of touts outside and the touted price indicates that demand outstrips availability.

It is depressing to go to places like Bournemouth, as I did a couple
of years ago where the away allocation is little more than 1000 and
find five people sitting in a row in front of me who, it turns out are
from S Africa and this is their first game and they got the tickets
off an on line tout.

Its good to see people watching their first game though!
I think there should be a bigger allocation of tickets that are available to anyone, but I don't know how they'd stop these just being scalped.
I remember my first game, it was a hugely overpriced scalped ticket but was ace. I couldn't afford to take my boy though at the prices now!
It seems sensible to me that away tickets don't just get sold to anyone, that relatively tiny group of fans are surely more important in terms of support.

The way people can get untouted tickets is either to become a member and go for a League Cup game of Europa group stage game or join an overseas supporters’ club. The League Cup games are normallu £25 and Europa £35 which is not prohibitive. Reductions for kids.

How much is membership?

Sorry if this is a repost, but someone shared this on LinkedIn today, what a great letter from CEO at Barnsley FC to one of their fans.

1 Attachment

Classy

Yeah saw that today - love that

Costa kinda showed what we are missing last night. When he plays like that he’s one of the best.

Since we got promoted I've found it easier to get away tickets than home, especially if I want to take my son. Membership puts you in a scramble at 9am to phone up for home tickets, and it's one per member. Away tickets are usually available if it's a) Palace who allocate loads (albeit with restricted view) or b) an evening kick-off the other side of London (from Leicester) - so Bournemouth, Southampton, Brighton, etc.

http://www.thecitytalking.com/david-batty-leeds-united-interview-1/

It's old.
But this week's joy of six made me look for it.

David Batty eh?