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As a dog owner, I'm forced to go to the nudist beaches in France during the peak summer months. I'd welcome some g strings...

BBC Radio 5 Live covering the Johnson story by interviewing his supporters unchallenged. Again.

I don't disagree, but do you think that wearing a T-shirt that says "black people are inferior to whites" would be acceptable? Is there not an argument that a burqa is pretty much the equivalent of wearing a T-shirt that says "feminism is bullshit - women are the inferior sex"?

It's a tricky issue for sure but isn't the difference with that example, the t-shirt would literally say that. The phrase is on the t-shirt and is inciting racial hatred.

The burqa doesn't literally say anything. It doesn't incite racial hatred or cause any harm to anyone who lays their eyes on it. There's nothing on it, it's just fabric.

I actually think that example gets closer to the heart of the issue – that the burqa shocks a lot of us in the west and we cant imagine anyone choosing to wear it out of choice so we project that phrase onto it. You and I might think it represents the opression of women by patriarchy and religion but what do the women who choose to put it on each day think? I just don't see who has the right to tell them they can't do that.

Either way, banning the burqa isn't the answer to male oppression, banning oppressive males is.

Is there not an argument that a burqa is pretty much the equivalent of wearing a T-shirt that says "feminism is bullshit - women are the inferior sex"?

It might not mean that to the person wearing it, but it means that to huge swathes of the population.

It kinda sounds like you don't know many feminists or people who wear burqas, or you're just doing that "isn't there an argument for" internet discussion thing. Not being flippant, but it's like you're projecting an idea you've only half thought of.

If there are "huge swathes of the population" who basically fear the burqa for it's perceived anti-feminism, I would've thought a pretty good way of defusing that fear would be for them to meet more 'normal' people (feminists) who wear burqas. They exist. My perception (no references available) is that people who fear the burqa do so primarily not because of "feminism is bullshit" but a more basic cultural alienation, a strangeness. That strangers can be (cautiously) accepted or even welcomed, if there is some cultural overlap, but too little and it feels unacceptable, too different. I believe at its root it's this simple, and doesn't need overcomplicating with comparison to hoodies, banks and face-to-face MP surgeries, but that this basic fear of the unknown can be easily manipulated and distorted. A few odd aliens might be ok, but if the papers are telling you that they are coming for your country, and soon you will be forced to conform to this thing you don't understand, you feel rather differently about it. There are people who find it just as alien and strange that others go out with little more covering than underwear in public - and also assume that it must be due to cultural oppression of a different kind. Yes there are all sorts of layered and thorny influences that lead to simple instinctive feelings - mostly the more unpleasant aspects of morality and religion - but that basic sense of - "I cannot imagine wanting to do that or thinking it's normal" is hard to shake if whatever it is, remains alien. All IMO, of course.

BBC website meanwhile has "Criticism grows of Johnson Burkha jibe" on the front page, and an article full of quotes from his detractors.

I think you're biased against the BBC, and only notice things which fit what you already think.

Bring back rep

Is the person wearing the t-shirt black or white?

Absolutely. Even on the worst case scenario where the wearer of a burka is some sort of self-loathing puritan, she is only projecting an image of herself, not anyone else, regardless of her general views. Secular women are not oppressed by her existence. The most society should be doing is creating an environment where she feels free from oppression, not criminalising her.

Thanks for posting this. It was quite an interesting story.

Anyone else get the feeling that a bunch of lfgsssers have recently quit their Facebook accounts?

I don't use mine much/at all.

to stop mark zuckerberg selling all those sweet sweet holiday snaps, dank memes and strava updates to the russians obvs.

Anyone else get the feeling that a bunch of lfgsssers have recently quit their Facebook accounts?

I've recently deleted the app off my phone/iPad, and if I could work out how to export my photographs would likely bin the account completely.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.androidcentral.com/how-get-your-pictures-out-facebook-and-google-photos%3famp

You can download everything from Facebook. It sends you a link to a zip file that is an archive of everything on there including pictures

https://www.facebook.com/help/212802592074644

Surely everyone moved to Insta years ago?

I deactivated mine and but apparently people have still been able to send me messages; I've received some text like "why are you ignoring me on FB" etc. I may have to go the whole hog and nuke the account as you've provided this handy link.

Don't you work in IT?

I nuked my Facebook account a few months back. Have not missed it at all.

I'd like to nuke everything but how would I keep in touch with everybody? Don't bother with IG anymore, FB drives me nuts, this place is also starting to annoy me...

The only way I'd be able to break free would be by ditching my smart phone...

A couple mates of mine back home have never had smart phones or done social media, even as teenagers in the bebo/myspace days. I have to say I'm really jealous of them for that. they aren't hard to get hold of and get bemused by the whole taking loads of pictures all the time and worrying about showing people online what they had for dinner!

just do what i do and don't have any friends

just put the homeowners thread on ignore

I found deleting the app the best thing - I don't use FB for anything meaningful, nor do any of my actual friends (rather than past acquaintances). I do have the messenger app installed still - it's basically a huge contact book from my past and it's useful to be able to get in touch with those people if needed.