EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

It sounds like we should form a think-tank.

Hang on, I'll call Putin for some funding

I'm going to sign out for a little bit, probably this is as good a way to do so as any other

1 Attachment

Freehold/leasehold is a rotten system directly derived from it.

Freehold means you own the land. Leasehold means you rent the land. What's 'rotten' about that? I can't think of a single system of property law in a capitalist state which doesn't permit land ownership and the renting of land.

Yep, none of that is too surprising. Undoubtedly part of the poor service is due to budget cuts, part of it does seem to be "you have no other option" though. Probably linked to the fact that it's pretty much a one-party council, has been for years and will be for the foreseeable future.

This thread is awesome

Freehold means you own the land. Leasehold means you rent the land.

No, it doesn't. It means you have property rights for a fixed period, which is not the same thing.

I think I'll defer to @danstuff here

What the fixed period for the title to freehold land then?

As for leaseholds, a lease can either be a fixed term tenancy (technically 'a term of years') or it can be a periodic tenancy which automatically renews until terminated by a notice to quit, so a leasehold interest doesn't necessarily have a fixed period either, including a statutory periodic tenancy which comes into existence on the expiry of an assured tenancy.

So, what's this fixed period?

I read Bruce’s comment as a fixed period of property rights applying to leasehold whereas freehold is ownership until all propert rights are stripped at the next revolution.

#armchairpolicymakers

being a bear with very little brain for understanding economical things, I was quite enjoying this bit of the discussion - a distraction from the "we're fucked, there's no solution" mood.
but it didn't last long.

That, yes. 99 or 150 years being typical.

Rental = no property rights but usage rights and the rent is all you pay. Comparitavely short term.
Leasehold, for most urban dwellers at least, means you typically pay at a similarly large scale as if getting freehold rights and get significantly better rights with regard to the property than a renter only a) fixed term, b) built-in depreciation because of the fixed term and c) the bastard who owns the freehold has rather poorly regulated rights to stiff you with ground rent, services charges etc.

As a matter of law, I'm afraid that's all complete cobblers, not least because there is no legal distinction between renting and a lease. They're the same thing. There are short term leases, where there's no premium but a rack rent, and there are long term leases where the lease is granted for a premium and a ground rent is charged. However, they're both leases, they're both tenancies, and the lessee/tenant in both cases is renting the property.

The terms of short term leases and long term leases are often very different. But they're fundamentally the same thing, although admittedly if you have a long lease of more than 21 years you have rights of enfranchisement you wouldn't have with a shorter term lease.

The proposition that 'Rental = no property rights' is simply wrong. If you rent property, you have the right to occupy it in the same way and to the same extent and with the same proprietary rights and interests as someone with a 999 year long lease.

Still not seeing why leasehold systems are, as a matter of principle, 'rotten'. What are you proposing as a (realistic) alternative to leasehold ownership?

Yeh, but, you can prove anything with knowledge.

I'm probably conflating patterns of practice with legal principles, yes.

Experts, what are they good for?

Insulation

Ye but if you were all capable of taking an impartial, balanced, equanimous look at the world like our good friend Freddo can you might really learn something.

I'm not surprised he flounced, big pot of biased, myopic rabid bastards that we all are.

we can stockpile insulation

what about the Rapha and Paul brakes though amey. What about them.

Within a few weeks we'll all be wearing 80's nylon club kits from the chazza, fighting over a single corroded Weinmann long drop calliper, using backlogs of unsold piles of Michelin tyres that puncture every 30 meters, fast rolling and supple Grand Bois nothing but a distant memory...

Thats @Vince 's lifestyle !

Some of us are stockpiling self insulation

*odd colour Michelins plz

It sounds like we should form a think-tank.

What's wrong with the one we've had since 2007?

As a matter of law, I'm afraid that's all complete cobblers

As Freemen of the Land, what do we care about the 'law'? Pwahhaahaa.

^ Quite possibly not the best joke to try with lawyers, as I imagine they're all fed up to the back teeth with that stuff. :) Sorry if so.