EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

At least 350 million a week for the NHS.

Proof - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42698981

[fry.jpg]

I see Raab is quick to show that he doesn't understand the difference between withdrawal and a future relationship.

These clowns are going to fuck us all over for at least a generation.

You're simply showing that you don't understand the EU Andy - they need us more than we need them, and if we have no withdrawal agreement and stiff them on the 39Bn we owe them then they'll give us a priority deal on airtravel/EASA on the 1st of April because they want out tourists.

Interesting point from Steve Bullock on Twitter yesterday- the A50 period is the final time that the EU have to negotiate with us as a departing member. They'd not entertain the current type of engagement with a third country, we'd be presented with "this is your single option, we can negotiate the finer detail, but the core is what is on offer and is non-negotiable". That's what we get post A-50.

a) The fact that the government keeps bringing up points that have already been agreed as if they are still on the table would be laughable if the consequences weren't so serious.

b) My long term prediction is that we will be back in by 2030, with Schengen, the Euro and the lot.

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s fund house launches second Irish fund

Somerset Capital, the UK boutique manager part-owned by Jacob Rees-Mogg, has launched a second Irish-based fund as the politician, famed for favouring a hard Brexit, continues to reduce his stake in the emerging markets specialist.

https://www.ft.com/content/d615b792-8c1c-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 [yeah, paywall...]

emerging markets

Soon to include the UK

I do hate to argue ;)

Your point b does not fully cover how good a deal we currently have, compared to prospective new members.

How can you explain the carnage, when people don't believe experts.... Let us not forget experts and soothsayers.

I think it suits the EU to have Sterling as the worldwide Spivs currency.

Tax dodgers and money laundering?

I don’t think it’s Diable

My money's on Pistanator

Not a chance.

@nimhbus, obvs...

buckets of sovereignty and trade purely on WTO

If we're getting into purely intellectual arguments like sovereignty, why do Brexiters believe that it is acceptable to bind ourselves to WTO rules?

For eg if we wanted a bespoke deal with Japan, my limited understanding is that would have to be offered to all other countries. Does that not bind our hands? Or am I missing something?

You are talking about MFN?

Yes.

But also why being bound to the EU rules in relation to goods and services would matter on principle compared to WTO.

I get the impression a lot of the sovereignty chat among brexiteers is around red-tape in the workplace and such. EU health and safety (maybe as its perceived) making life a bit less fun/more of a faff

Dominic Cummings has stated that the Leave campaign had to avoid specifics and concentrate on vague concepts. Sovereignty fits this tactic exactly. Recent podcasts state that the UK government was on the 'winning' side of 95% of ECJ/ EU legislation.
The anti-EU press emphasised certain defeats like votes for prisoners to the extent that Gammons believed 'we' were under the thumb of Brussels.

www​.hse.gov.uk/statistics/.../fatalinjuries....

Shows the long term trend, p2
and the UK the 2nd safest country in the EU, p10.

I think this line of conjecture plays into the hands of Mogg et al- as soon as we’re out that’s likely it for us for 20 years or so. I don’t think we’ll be welcomed back, most especially if Raab (or whoever replaces him) stiffs the EU on the 39Bn.

This is assuming that the European continent doesn't decide that we are a) a massive clusterfuck thanks to our government and b) too much hassle. Because the European line could be paraphrased as, 'we are all in this together, wat da fuq r u doing m8'. Britain was already seen as the one who pushed to the front of the queue for hand-outs and special deals, while the other countries more or less got on with building a better Europe that didn't involve shooting your neighbours every few decades.

Just because it's a page I've not commented on for a bit, and I'm off to the mainland on Tuesday,we are fucked aren't we?

^^I tend to agree, we've been such dicks in the process of leaving, destroyed all the goodwill that might have been available, that I suspect the EU just want to see the back of us now.