EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

What food will these people eat Oliver?

Not much at first, as they'll need to lose some weight given the obesity crisis. Then when they all look as haggard as someone after he's won the Tour de France, they'll eat food produced using the electricity they've generated. Very simple, really, but you can obviously count on remoaners to not see the wood for the trees.

they'll eat food produced using the electricity they've generated

Won't it take a long time for this food to grow? Were going to lose quite a lot of people in the meantime. Although that population decrease will mean less power is needed, so increasing the efficiency of the system.

It'll be OK, we'll just make up for that population loss by a lot of immigration.

I imagine the people in intensive care will go quite quickly.

More beds for the NHS.
No power to operate.

Homeopathy to the rescue. Again.

Yes they kept the emotional temperature down. But you could argue too that this is party over country.

But they also backed something that was instantly clear to be very harmful to their voters as May proposed a rock hard Brexit [fnar], so on principle opposing was possible.

Best hope is that the momentum vote proposal on the SM happens, Labour fully backs this (w/o the nativism cakeism of 3/4 freedoms Corbyn is proposing atm no FOM) and elections follow. If Labour backs a vote it will change my opinion on them as it shows they are willing to listen to their members, which is quite important to me, I think democracy is not some sort of "oh every so often we ask you one thing/hold one election".

Tory party just does whatever atm!

I really don't understand your thinking. 'Party over country'? They need to keep the party together to get elected, for the good (as they see it) of the country. 'Opposing was possible'? They opposed what May did from the word 'go', e.g. saying they would immediately guarantee the rights of EU citizens, opposed a 'Tory Brexit', etc.

There may well come a time when Labour can adopt a position on the single market, but I, too, don't think that time has yet come.

I don't believe fire alarms will be voting in the house. The members we all voted for will be doing that, and yes some will naturally be moaning.

This doesn't make any sense. Please try again.

I get your point, Oliver, and partially agree with it, but voting for the Article 50 notification was a massive mistake and one that history will judge badly.

I would see agreeing with starting a process without any insight on what it will entail and all the warning signs that it will not be good is a bad thing to do. The excuse that they don't know until negotations doesn't work for me, as there wasn't even a clear outline to put to the EU. No whitepapers, no nothing.

But, we are going to probably agree to disagree there, that's fine.

As for keeping your party to help the country, I don't see standing by and not coming up with a credible alternative and cherrypicking to keep your own party together as honourable, but again, others will disagree.

Labour has a SM position from how I read the tealeaves, they want all the benefits it has but exclude freedom of movement. But they didn't actually call it the SM because that would indeed suggest a clear position, atm there is still a lot vagueness which I can only interpret as cherry picking/faffing about to keep things calm and wait for the Tories to mess up.

I think I am just massively disappointed in Labour, but if they turn around I'll be very pleased. I am not going to dislike the party forever on this if they turn around. But that is a big IF atm.

Stick a bit of rope in them and use them as candles?

It makes this interesting (but stretched) conspiracy theory story a lot more plausible:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html

Yes the dude is a dick who loves controversy, but seriously in what world do you visit a country, fundamentally undermine the leader's position, and carry out a hatchet job on one of their policies in their most popular newspaper?

We're not talking about criticism of detention of detainees, or dumping goods. This is literally a play to weaken May and push an agenda to weaken the UK and the EU.

He might be colluding with the Russians but he'd be this much of a dick anyway.

in what world do you visit a country, fundamentally undermine the leader's position, and carry out a hatchet job on one of their policies in their most popular newspaper?

In the world of a desperately insecure, narcissistic sociopath. He creates chaos around him so that everybody else is off balance etc.

but seriously in what world do you visit a country, fundamentally undermine the leader's position, and carry out a hatchet job on one of their policies in their most popular newspaper?

I was kinda 'yeah Trump whatevs' - until this.

I think you are being naive.

This isn't a tweet. This is an exclusive in the Sun.

Everything about this is tactical.

It is a direct attack on May. It is a direct attack on UK relationship with the EU.

He views life as a zero sum game though. If he's pulling someone down then, to Trump, that means he's rising up.

A quarter mile at a time.

So what is in it for Murdoch? The megalulz?

Unless he's still sore that in the EU he is "just another guy" and not a kingmaker for politicians.

It's just like Black Mirror showed us

UK blocking his attempt to take over Sky possibly?

Money.

I think you are being naive.

Do fuck off. I said none of this means he belongs to the Russians, which is not the same thing as saying he isn't a malicious powermonger. I'm just saying his agenda is his own and he's a shit about it.

To be honest it doesn't need to have anything for Murdoch. Any newspaper would have run that story, it's great for them.

Next spring I will be doing a final booze cruise to France and will stockpile tins of cassoulet. Ha! Take that brexit.

A bit harsh?

My point was against the idea that he'd be this much of a dick anyway. Imo it's not par for the the course - even for him. The method of delivery was planned to be far reaching beyond his typical audience and in a way his usual dick moves aren't.

Lots of people seem to be saying it's just him speaking his mind and shaking things up as usual.